The Ugly Canada Thread

[FrAnKs]

I don't care at all if there is no grass.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by vid

Houses like that prove without a doubt that we live in a car dominated culture.

Winnipeg's newer suburbs are absolutely lousy with this kind of house design where it looks like the actual dwelling is barely an afterthought compared to the garage. I've seen even worse than this, where the living space is barely visible from the street.

And this is not some niche product either... this particular home is in one of the larger southern suburbs and basically represents the suburban dream for thousands upon thousands of Winnipeggers.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

I don't care at all if there is no grass.

the problem has more to do with storm water systems, subdivisions are designed to have natural seepage areas like lawns, and paving over lawns forces more storm water into the storm sewer network, overwhelming city infrastructure. Most municipalities (sadly) probably couldn't care less otherwise.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

the problem has more to do with storm water systems, subdivisions are designed to have natural seepage areas like lawns, and paving over lawns forces more storm water into the storm sewer network, overwhelming city infrastructure. Most municipalities (sadly) probably couldn't care less otherwise.

Good point.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by esquire

Winnipeg's newer suburbs are absolutely lousy with this kind of house design where it looks like the actual dwelling is barely an afterthought compared to the garage. I've seen even worse than this, where the living space is barely visible from the street.

And this is not some niche product either... this particular home is in one of the larger southern suburbs and basically represents the suburban dream for thousands upon thousands of Winnipeggers.

I hate to break it to you but this has been the norm for new builds for the last 20+ years now. That example isn't even that bad. I've seen some bungalows with the garage in the front where there is a fake window above the garage door to compensate for the fact that otherwise there are no windows on the front of the building.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by vid

Houses like that prove without a doubt that we live in a car dominated culture.

I think the biggest reason for this horrid practice here is large south Asian families that occupy neighbouring homes and cram dozens of people into them that all drive a vehicle. One family on the block already owned 3 houses while my in-laws lived there and they ended up buying theirs as well. Thankfully this wasn't their old home.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

the problem has more to do with storm water systems, subdivisions are designed to have natural seepage areas like lawns, and paving over lawns forces more storm water into the storm sewer network, overwhelming city infrastructure. Most municipalities (sadly) probably couldn't care less otherwise.

My city cares. There are no less than two class action lawsuits against it for problems caused by insufficient drainage. We're spending millions throughout the entire city to install more permeable surface areas and upgrade storm sewers. In 2012, a heavy rain storm caused our storm sewers to overflow into the sanitary sewers, which inundated the sewage treatment plant and caused raw sewage to back up into over 1,000 homes in 3 parts of the city. My building (though not my apartment) and my work were both affected. The basement of our warehouse had a sewage a foot deep inside it, complete with feces and condoms.

The city is counter suing over 200 property owners whose building's roof drains are connected directly to the sanitary sewers, which has been illegal here since the late 1990s.

[Acajack]

These houses with only the garage visible are also an unfortunate byproduct the (otherwise laudable) willingness to build more compact suburbs. Lot sizes for new SFHs have become smaller and smaller in most of the major CMAs. When you factor in the setback and lateral clearance and other requirements it becomes harder and harder to fit a house with a double garage onto a lot and maintain space for a porch, window façade or in some cases even a front door visible from the street. I am not saying I like it BTW, just offering an explanation.

Ottawa's suburbs are full of these snout houses as well.

Gatineau has almost none as we have generally allowed slightly larger lot sizes and also for some reason Quebecers aren't as big on double garages. My street has a lot of 2000+ sq ft houses and that vast majority of them have a single garage or sometimes what is called a 1.5 garage. Full double garages are far from the majority of houses.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I think the biggest reason for this horrid practice here is large south Asian families that occupy neighbouring homes and cram dozens of people into them that all drive a vehicle. One family on the block already owned 3 houses while my in-laws lived there and they ended up buying theirs as well. Thankfully this wasn't their old home.

In fairness, this does allow for improved density... having more than the usual 3 or 4 people living in these 2200 sf suburban houses does make sense, IMO.

Originally Posted by Acajack

These houses with only the garage visible are also an unfortunate byproduct the (otherwise laudable) willingness to build more compact suburbs. Lot sizes for new SFHs have become smaller and smaller in most of the major CMAs. When you factor in the setback and lateral clearance and other requirements it becomes harder and harder to fit a house with a double garage onto a lot and maintain space for a porch, window façade or in some cases even a front door visible from the street. I am not saying I like it BTW, just offering an explanation.

Ottawa's suburbs are full of these snout houses as well.

In Winnipeg they are referred to as 'cab overs', as in the semi trailer rig units that these homes resemble. This term is used completely unironically by realtors.

Why did backlanes fall completely out of favour for new suburbs? The reality is with these snout houses you get all the downside of backlanes with none of the upside. In some of the more densely packed suburbs around here, driving on the street actually looks a bit like a backlane...

[vid]

In Thunder Bay, we allow larger lot sizes, with enables developers to put the garage in the back with a driveway leading up to it along the side of the lot.

The odd thing about it is, in spite of our slightly declining population, because we can't put as many houses in developments as other cities, we've actually run short on available building lots. The city has been trying to get developers to survey and prepare their land as quickly as possible and is preparing subdivisions faster but mistakes will probably be made. We're forcing more of the land to be devoted to commercial and high density use though. Something like 30% to 50% of all dwellings in new subdivisions must be in multi-unit buildings, and public transit and walking trails must be available.



The average lot here is 15m (just under 50 feet)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

In fairness, this does allow for improved density... having more than the usual 3 or 4 people living in these 2200 sf suburban houses does make sense, IMO.




In Winnipeg they are referred to as 'cab overs', as in the semi trailer rig units that these homes resemble. This term is used completely unironically by realtors.

Why did backlanes fall completely out of favour for new suburbs? The reality is with these snout houses you get all the downside of backlanes with none of the upside. In some of the more densely packed suburbs around here, driving on the street actually looks a bit like a backlane...

Backlanes are done in in most the country because they are seen as doubling snow removal costs for a single house in the winter.

[Nouvellecosse]

Generally, it isn't a big improvement in suburbia to increase the density but not to alter the design in any way, keeping it the same basic format of winding streets and culs-de-sac, single uses, and automobile orientation. Yes you're saving on infrastructure costs like the length of street, sewers and water-mains per resident, but you're losing out on huge opportunities that the increased density provides, such as reducing automobile dependence.

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I hate to break it to you but this has been the norm for new builds for the last 20+ years now. That example isn't even that bad. I've seen some bungalows with the garage in the front where there is a fake window above the garage door to compensate for the fact that otherwise there are no windows on the front of the building.

Yup. In the newer Regina neighbourhoods, when one travels down their streets, all you see are double garages that go on endlessly. They look merely functional and utilitarian, no character these days.

[Cyro]

It is ugly in a sense, no character, row apon row of similiar design, maximizing functionality but constructed by developers to maximze their return on investment and the space available to them.

It always comes back to how do you change peoples minds? The photos provided say the majority of home buyers locating in suburbia, want to park 2,3 or 4 vehicles at home? How it looks when you drive down the street is of little concern to most when they purchase in these neighborhoods.

[Nouvellecosse]

The easiest way is probably to build places where people don't need all those cars. But that of course isn't just an issue of the lot sizes, but also the street plan and proximity to shops and services.

But you're never going to convince people to reduce the number of cars they have if they live somewhere that requires them for reasonable mobility.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by niwell

Does Okotoks still have a strict growth cap? I remember they originally planned to hit a maximum population of 30,000 or something like that to preserve the small-town identity. Have a feeling that may have been thrown out the window.

Still, it is the nicest of Calgary's satellite communities (may not be saying much).

Okotoks.........Cochrane...Chestermere.....................................Airdrie (should be off the page)

Okotoks' growth cap was lifted in 2012 and world's largest glacial erratic boulder is not in Okotoks, nearby but about 6km west in the MD of Foothills.

High River and Strathmore would be even nicer satellite communities although they might be a bit too far out to be considered as such.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

Yup. In the newer Regina neighbourhoods, when one travels down their streets, all you see are double garages that go on endlessly. They look merely functional and utilitarian, no character these days.

Sure, they have character if you considered a streetscape of double wide garage doors an ideal character streetscape and it's quite obvious in the last 30 or so years that this is what people want.

Personally, I don't get it but then again my mid-50's bungalow on a 60 foot wide lot with a rear-drive double garage goes even more against what many skyscraper forum members want to see - yeah, we're seeing redevelopment/densification in our community but for now our street is all wonderful owner occupied bungalows who have been living in their homes for at least 15 years now, a great sense of community we have as a result.

[vid]

I don't think those neighbourhoods are what people want, but it's certainly what they're settling for.

[WhipperSnapper]

I agree. At one time, this was very desirable though.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by speedog

Okotoks' growth cap was lifted in 2012 and world's largest glacial erratic boulder is not in Okotoks, nearby but about 6km west in the MD of Foothills.

High River and Strathmore would be even nicer satellite communities although they might be a bit too far out to be considered as such.

I'll give you High River but Strathmore?!?

I guess if you enjoy the smell of cow shit and nothing but bald ass prairie? To me it's on par with Airdrie but smellier.