PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Hrrm...I was just thinking, with the rink idea, they still have the same issue I pointed out for the housing - where do you put the parking? Honestly, it's worse in this case, because people might rent apartments without a car, but there aren't enough people within walking distance to utilize the rink, and plenty of people will want to visit it from outside the area.

It's not clear from the rendering if the sky showing on the ceiling is from a large window or an opening to the outside.

There is actually more than enough parking in the area to handle a use like a rink/event space. There are significant number of parking spaces along both sides of Emerson between Walnut & Alder as it is now. And there are 3 large surface lots in very close proximity. Note that churches love the revenue stream from renting their parking lots to other entities, and that also brings in tax revenue that normally the churches do not pay on those properties. This is a very common practice, and could be easily worked out since those lots are often empty in the evenings and at other non-service/non-school hour times -- basically evenings and Saturdays, which is when use at a venue like this would occur for the vast majority of the time.


Yeah, I'm not sure what they're totally going for with the roof... but it seems to be 1) a large window to simulate being outdoors and providing the lovely living in an atrium lobby experience, and which would most likely be cost prohibitive considering the size of the armory 2) a permanent opening which would destroy a national historic landmark and create one of the most energy inefficient structures known to man; not to mention require apartments constructed inside another structure to be built to exterior building codes or 3) a retractable roof a la the wonderful Pfaffmann proposal to build a hotel inside the old Civic Arena; and I'm sure that would be cheap.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Are you saying existing interior spaces can never be successfully subdivided?

No, I'm not saying that at all.

And I'm not saying that the armory couldn't be successfully repurposed as residential, but the preliminary proposal here is just awful. It represents a terrible squandering of a large amount of space via a half-assed attempt at incorporating multiple novel uses while maintaining only half of what is impressive about the original structure.

Looking at the plans, the first two are just so gimmicky, and just will not age well. Whereas, the third is timeless and actually creates (recreates, I should say) what could become a public treasure for Pittsburgh.

http://apps.pittsburghpa.gov/district8/Mosites_Presentation.pdf

http://apps.pittsburghpa.gov/district8/Strada-Armory-Presentation_prefinal.pdf

http://apps.pittsburghpa.gov/district8/Kratsa_-_Cadan_Presentation.pdf

[AaronPGH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

http://apps.pittsburghpa.gov/district8/Kratsa_-_Cadan_Presentation.pdf

I'm sorry, I am crying laughing over the rending with the ice dancing troupe in this one

[Austinlee]

Huge parking garage proposed next to Heinz Field (between the two stadiums) with a completion date listed in 2017. What do yinz guys think?

This was bound to be proposed eventually. In fact I think there will eventually be at least 2 if not 3 more 1,000 car garages built in this area. That would be the parking solution to full North Shore buildout of condo towers, and office and mixed use buildings to fill all the remaining open concrete. I think it would be fine as long as it's all dense as hell.

Parking structure adjacent to Heinz Field proposed
November 5, 2015 12:00 AM

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/dev...einz-Field-proposed/stories/201511050094

Last month, the authority gave Continental an extension until Nov. 30 to buy land needed for a proposed 250-unit apartment complex near PNC Park while it, the Columbus developer, and the Steelers and the Pirates tried to figure out how to replace the 531 spaces being lost to new or recent development.

Those projects include the recently opened North Shore Place I and II office and retail complex, the proposed apartment development, and a planned office building on the riverfront.

The authority also has been considering an expansion of the 1,321-space West General Robinson Street garage, which opened in 2006 and is home to the North Side T station. That is still a possibility at a later date, Ms. Conturo said. It can be expanded by as many as 500 spaces.

The authority would like to start the new garage in Lot 1 in the spring. The 1,200-space lot is heavily used by daily commuters and Steelers, Pirates and Pitt fans on game days.

[glowrock]

More garages make sense around Heinz Field, no doubt about it. Now that we can reduce the so-called need for surface parking, perhaps some decent developments can finally really start occurring between Heinz and PNC?

Aaron (Glowrock)

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Huge parking garage proposed next to Heinz Field (between the two stadiums) with a completion date listed in 2017. What do yinz guys think?

This was required by the stadium deal for further development to occur, so it is good in that sense. Of course that deal sucks in general but it is what it is.

And the location is about as good as it could be for the sake of making way for future development--not too near either of the T stations nor the river.

[JVC]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

I'm sorry, I am crying laughing over the rending with the ice dancing troupe in this one

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Fucking Zeppelin played the Hunt Armory. Don't fuck it up.

Zeppelin On Ice?

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

This was required by the stadium deal for further development to occur, so it is good in that sense. Of course that deal sucks in general but it is what it is.

And the location is about as good as it could be for the sake of making way for future development--not too near either of the T stations nor the river.

More parking near the stadium is a good thing for development up in Allegheny West and Manchester. Right now property owners can make money off of crappy gravel lots by charging Steelers fans $40 each for parking during games. It's definitely an economic impediment to infill residential development in those neighborhoods.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

I'm sorry, I am crying laughing over the rending with the ice dancing troupe in this one

You know you can't look away...

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by GeneW

More parking near the stadium is a good thing for development up in Allegheny West and Manchester. Right now property owners can make money off of crappy gravel lots by charging Steelers fans $40 each for parking during games. It's definitely an economic impediment to infill residential development in those neighborhoods.

Good point. Ultimately, it may also be a good idea to build a new parking structure somewhere on the other side of Heinz, then redevelop the other surface parking lots on that side into offices and apartments and such (of course you could do a mixed-use project including parking). Presumably that would in turn would also help combat the effect you are describing.

Speaking of which, I wonder what is going on with the Rivers Casino hotel project. I feel like we haven't heard about that one for a while.

[AaronPGH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

You know you can't look away...

Also really like whatever's happening with this fancy squad up here. All that money for a glowing purple box and they don't even get furniture.



Also, this is making me think. Has anyone ever created a tumblr or blog that just collects the worst / most ridiculous proposal renderings out there? There has to be so much content.

[Brentsters]

US Steel pulls out.

[JVC]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

Also really like whatever's happening with this fancy squad up here. All that money for a glowing purple box and they don't even get furniture.

luxury box as penalty box

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Brentsters

US Steel pulls out.

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ne...abandons-plan-to-build-headquarters.html

EXCLUSIVE: U.S. Steel abandons plan to build headquarters at former Civic Arena site

Nov 5, 2015, 12:12pm EST Updated Nov 5, 2015, 12:28pm EST

United States Steel Corp. has dropped plans to build a new headquarters at the former Civic Arena site in the Lower Hill District, a source from within the company told the Pittsburgh Business Times on Thursday.

The decision was made after a careful review over the last year and announced to employees by CEO Mario Longhi on Thursday morning, according to the source. U.S. Steel (NYSE: X) is planning to stay in its current space at the U.S. Steel Tower until the end of its lease.

“We will be exploring all options” for its next move, the source told the Pittsburgh Business Times. That could include finding another spot for U.S. Steel and its 800 and 900 employees inside or outside Pittsburgh.

U.S. Steel had intended to build a five-story, 268,000-square-foot headquarters building that was to be the centerpiece of the redevelopment of the former Civic Arena site spearheaded by the Pittsburgh Penguins. No final lease agreement had been signed almost a year after the project was first announced.

The uncertainty surrounding the pending sale of the Penguins played a role in the decision, according to the source, who also confirmed U.S. Steel had no advance notice when it was announced last June the Penguins were being put on the block. A sale of the Penguins has not yet been announced.

...

In September it cut an undisclosed number of jobs from its downtown Pittsburgh headquarters.

...

[TBone7281]

I can't really say I'm disappointed. Hopefully they can do something better with the land now.

[themaguffin]

The uncertainty surrounding the pending sale of the Penguins played a role in the decision

Reason 10,000 why sports teams shouldn't be involved in such endeavors.

I hope this was a blessing in disguise considering the wasted opportunity that their building was going to be.

Maybe they should consider office space as a small piece of the component and plan big with residential and maybe a nice size hotel...

[JVC]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

Reason 10,000 why sports teams shouldn't be involved in such endeavors.

I hope this was a blessing in disguise considering the wasted opportunity that their building was going to be.

Maybe they should consider office space as a small piece of the component and plan big with residential and maybe a nice size hotel...

and in the meantime plant grass on the site so it doesn't look like a scrapyard on national television

[Captain Crash]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

There is actually more than enough parking in the area to handle a use like a rink/event space. There are significant number of parking spaces along both sides of Emerson between Walnut & Alder as it is now. And there are 3 large surface lots in very close proximity. Note that churches love the revenue stream from renting their parking lots to other entities, and that also brings in tax revenue that normally the churches do not pay on those properties. This is a very common practice, and could be easily worked out since those lots are often empty in the evenings and at other non-service/non-school hour times -- basically evenings and Saturdays, which is when use at a venue like this would occur for the vast majority of the time.


Yeah, I'm not sure what they're totally going for with the roof... but it seems to be 1) a large window to simulate being outdoors and providing the lovely living in an atrium lobby experience, and which would most likely be cost prohibitive considering the size of the armory 2) a permanent opening which would destroy a national historic landmark and create one of the most energy inefficient structures known to man; not to mention require apartments constructed inside another structure to be built to exterior building codes or 3) a retractable roof a la the wonderful Pfaffmann proposal to build a hotel inside the old Civic Arena; and I'm sure that would be cheap.

Actually, the full plan for the ice rink solves its own parking problem. The 'arena' is on a level over top of indoor parking, so the plan includes quite a bit of parking.

I kind of like this plan, as it's been a tested successful method of reusing these types of structures. The ones in Brooklyn, the Bronx, and Chicago have done remarkably well.

As far as profitability, if done right, any small hockey venue such as this should be able to host a variety of events such as concerts, graduations, speeches, etc. So it's not limited to just hockey. However, I would also think it would be attractive for a primary tenant... low level hockey leagues like the NAHL have been trying to get into the Pittsburgh market for some time now. Teams in that league offer affordable entertainment and average anywhere between 500-2500 fans when healthy. Something like that might work as a cheap, family alternative to the Penguins. Just a thought!

[BrianTH]

Hallelujah!

Now we just need to get the Penguins out of the picture . . .

[Minivan Werner]

-edit-

nevermind