PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX - Page 465

Outta here · #**9281** Posted **Nov 2, 2015, 3:15 PM**

God no , hell no , shit no . YUK . Sealing off the city from the water front
with a wall of 300 or 400' sterile , " Star Trek " like condos , would be like
trying to pass off an Andy Warhol as a Rembrandt ...... Ok , a bit of a stretch
but I'm sure someone gets the point ...........

PS ; Yes I watched most of the game . Temple has nothing to be down about .
It was a good game ..... No , I didn't notice the lack of camera attention
for the city , but I guess " Game Day " had some other agenda ... Piss on GameDay .

Williard Mouse · #**9282** Posted **Nov 2, 2015, 3:24 PM**

While Delaware Ave. might not support a string of high rises, projects more along the lines of One Water Street's 16 floors would create more of an urban boulevard feel. With all of the 4-5 floor residentials and squat Corporate Park office buildings popping up around the city - we could become the next King of Prussia or Cherry Hill. When Jefferson and Haverford were first considered, my fear was that they present a plan for a suburban-style, low-rise apartment block. That is their specialty, and that is what we're getting.

1487 · #**9283** Posted **Nov 2, 2015, 3:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Williard Mouse

While Delaware Ave. might not support a string of high rises, projects more along the lines of One Water Street's 16 floors would create more of an urban boulevard feel. With all of the 4-5 floor residentials and squat Corporate Park office buildings popping up around the city - we could become the next King of Prussia or Cherry Hill. When Jefferson and Haverford were first considered, my fear was that they present a plan for a suburban-style, low-rise apartment block. That is their specialty, and that is what we're getting.

I doubt the height has anything to do with the developers. People act like building higher is a huge deal for developers- it's not. THey don't design or build anything for the most part. They pay people to do that stuff. The argument that a developer can't or won't build an urban high rise simply because they haven't done a lot of such projects in the past makes no sense to me.

Mikieman · #**9284** Posted **Nov 2, 2015, 4:27 PM**

20151101_141708_Pano by , on Flickr

Knight Hospitaller · #**9285** Posted **Nov 2, 2015, 6:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

Did anyone watch the Temple game on Saturday night? If so, did you notice the complete lack of shots of Philadelphia? At one point, I saw a shot of Broad Street by Temple's campus. But not a single skyline shot, no Art Museum, City Hall, steaks on the grill, Independence Hall, or anything. What was up with that?

The game was so good that I didn't really notice that. College Game Day did a nice job with city scenes.

Thoroughbred · #**9286** Posted **Nov 2, 2015, 8:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

The game was so good that I didn't really notice that. College Game Day did a nice job with city scenes.

Did anyone notice the Temple flag/banner hanging from the tower crane at 500 Walnut? made for a perfect back-drop over Independence Hall....

1487 · #**9287** Posted **Nov 2, 2015, 9:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

The game was so good that I didn't really notice that. College Game Day did a nice job with city scenes.

well during the game they kept making a big deal about how they couldnt believe there were in philly for a primetime football game that Im not surprised they really didn't know how to offer beauty shots of the city. I saw some shots from the campus, above the stadium and looking down broad from Temple. Not much else.

Knight Hospitaller · #**9288** Posted **Nov 2, 2015, 10:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

well during the game they kept making a big deal about how they couldnt believe there were in philly for a primetime football game that Im not surprised they really didn't know how to offer beauty shots of the city. I saw some shots from the campus, above the stadium and looking down broad from Temple. Not much else.

Do the Monday Night Football folk not talk to the Saturday night college crew? In any event, I was very pleased with how things went. The city and Temple got great exposure all day, starting with College Game Day. Temple acquitted themselves well and retained a top 25 ranking, really not missing a beat in their quest for a major bowl (even an undefeated Temple would have had the national championship deck stacked against it). My Alma Mater continued its march to the playoffs.

hammersklavier · #**9289** Posted **Nov 2, 2015, 11:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

Did anyone watch the Temple game on Saturday night? If so, did you notice the complete lack of shots of Philadelphia? At one point, I saw a shot of Broad Street by Temple's campus. But not a single skyline shot, no Art Museum, City Hall, steaks on the grill, Independence Hall, or anything. What was up with that?

Regarding the festival pier proposal, it's still early and there's no rendering. But I'm fine with the height and the impressive number of apartments. 30,000 sf- that doesn't seem like a whole lot relative to the number of units. For reference, the new Walgreens on Chestnut is 27,000 sf.

I'll just reiterate what I've stated in the One Water St thread - Delaware Ave needs as many new residents as possible to create a critical mass and make it a destination. Even at 4-5 floors, the project still creates far more density than townhomes allow. My main concern is actually the vast amount of open space (half of the entire 9 1/2 acre site). A public greenway along the riverfront is definitely necessary, but too much other open space can do more harm than good. Will there be enough residents and visitors to utilize all the public space or will they end up making the area seem desolate? Race Street Pier is .4 miles to the south and Penn Treaty Park is .7 miles to the north.

I did a quick site diagram mockup and it seems that with just riparian buffers and a greenspace extension of Spring Garden you already half half the site as open space.

mhays · #**9290** Posted **Nov 3, 2015, 12:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

I doubt the height has anything to do with the developers. People act like building higher is a huge deal for developers- it's not. THey don't design or build anything for the most part. They pay people to do that stuff. The argument that a developer can't or won't build an urban high rise simply because they haven't done a lot of such projects in the past makes no sense to me.

Developers do specialize in certain types of work. And while they hire other firms to design, build, manage construction (in some cases), market, etc., their reputation for similar work plays a large role in everything from interest rates to whether the A/E/C firms trust them enough to pursue the work at favorable terms. And no matter who they hire, the decision-makers need to have good judgement, and timely judgement.

Basically the cost can be several percent different, all else being equal. With that plus interest rates, the cost/risk/return equation can be dramatically different. That's often the difference between a job that happens and one that doesn't.

1487 · #**9291** Posted **Nov 3, 2015, 1:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays

Developers do specialize in certain types of work. And while they hire other firms to design, build, manage construction (in some cases), market, etc., their reputation for similar work plays a large role in everything from interest rates to whether the A/E/C firms trust them enough to pursue the work at favorable terms. And no matter who they hire, the decision-makers need to have good judgement, and timely judgement.

Basically the cost can be several percent different, all else being equal. With that plus interest rates, the cost/risk/return equation can be dramatically different. That's often the difference between a job that happens and one that doesn't.

My point is simple, the fact that a developer primarily specializes in suburban development doesn't mean they are not capable of doing an urban development. I'm sure before Toll started doing hi rise condo buildings in the NYC market people thought they weren't capable of such a thing. If you have financing and the right design team you can build anywhere.

mhays · #**9292** Posted **Nov 3, 2015, 4:27 PM**

True. With a large firm like Toll they typically hire some more staff to fill any internal gaps in expertise/capacity. And being gigantic has great benefits when it comes to financing and signing the various project participants. Some hurdles still remain though. For starters, even if they've hired experts at the project management level, the decision-makers still need to think and decide things appropriately for that project type. Major companies often get out of markets they just entered, as they chase a trend but find that their style, risk-acceptance, reaction speed, etc., are disadvantageous vs. their competitors. Toll is probably good though.

Philly Fan · #**9293** Posted **Nov 3, 2015, 5:14 PM**

With funding secured, Schuylkill River swing bridge construction could begin next summer

Quote:

The swing bridge will connect the Grays Ferry Crescent Trail with Bartram’s Mile, which extends north along the river from Bartram’s Garden.

Philly Kid · #**9294** Posted **Nov 3, 2015, 6:23 PM**

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...ingly_attract_out-of-town_investors.html

Good news

1487 · #**9295** Posted **Nov 3, 2015, 7:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly Kid

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...ingly_attract_out-of-town_investors.html

Good news

I wonder if this will even make it the print paper. If it does, it will be buried in the back of the 4 pages of "business" they cover every day.

Williard Mouse · #**9296** Posted **Nov 3, 2015, 8:05 PM**

Not too good news....From Philly.com

Brandywine has no immediate plans to develop newly purchased Market East parking garage. In fact, it may add several floors of additional parking.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/business/..._redevelop_Market_East_parking_deck.html

Knight Hospitaller · #**9297** Posted **Nov 3, 2015, 8:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Williard Mouse

Not too good news....From Philly.com

Brandywine has no immediate plans to develop newly purchased Market East parking garage. In fact, it may add several floors of additional parking.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/business/..._redevelop_Market_East_parking_deck.html

Bummer, but I'm actually optimistic about the plans to (hopefully) renovate the place and add "more vibrant" retail. It always sounded as if Brandywine was positioning itself for a future project, betting on the upward trajectory of the area. They want income in the meantime, hence more parking. If I wanted to get Outtahere all excited, I could surmise that the additional parking levels will be needed because Brandywine wants to wipe out a certain surface lot at 8th and Market......

Williard Mouse · #**9298** Posted **Nov 3, 2015, 8:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Bummer, but I'm actually optimistic about the plans to (hopefully) renovate the place and add "more vibrant" retail. It always sounded as if Brandywine was positioning itself for a future project, betting on the upward trajectory of the area. They want income in the meantime, hence more parking. If I wanted to get Outtahere all excited, I could surmise that the additional parking levels will be needed because Brandywine wants to wipe out a certain surface lot at 8th and Market......

Let's hope.

Kidphilly · #**9299** Posted **Nov 3, 2015, 8:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Bummer, but I'm actually optimistic about the plans to (hopefully) renovate the place and add "more vibrant" retail. It always sounded as if Brandywine was positioning itself for a future project, betting on the upward trajectory of the area. They want income in the meantime, hence more parking. If I wanted to get Outtahere all excited, I could surmise that the additional parking levels will be needed because Brandywine wants to wipe out a certain surface lot at 8th and Market......

seems like they may have longer term plans and wish for more there and would rather something larger in the hole but have said that for a long time

if by 2025 the disney and 22nd street hole have large projects I am feeling good about an Eagles SB win

Knight Hospitaller · #**9300** Posted **Nov 3, 2015, 8:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Williard Mouse

Let's hope.

Given the out of town investment that we're seeing, we don't have to rely just on the usual local suspects to develop the most notorious parcels. It's just a matter of time (but we should not expect the projects to be the second coming of the American Commerce or CoreStates Financial Centers).