The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[lrt's friend]

I can't figure out what Brampton City Council is doing. Refusing full funding? Not accepting a route that is a straight arrow between two rapid transit lines? Not wanting LRT to serve their city's downtown? It all seems so fool hardy. Reminds me of Ottawa's stupidity that resulted in $100 million being flushed down the toilet in 2006. But local politics can be pretty unpredictable and fault can be found with every plan. Too bad for Brampton. We will gladly take their funding if they don't want it.

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[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I can't figure out what Brampton City Council is doing. Refusing full funding? Not accepting a route that is a straight arrow between two rapid transit lines? Not wanting LRT to serve their city's downtown? It all seems so fool hardy. Reminds me of Ottawa's stupidity that resulted in $100 million being flushed down the toilet in 2006. But local politics can be pretty unpredictable and fault can be found with every plan. Too bad for Brampton. We will gladly take their funding if they don't want it.

Brampton is for cars anyways. They don't need an LRT.

That money should be for Toronto.

[Taeolas]

Talk about a Tale of Two Cities there. One Embracing the LRT and its potentials, and the other turning its back to it basically. Be interesting to see how things pan out for them in the end.

How badly does Brampton's decision screw KW and the rest of the cities beyond it?

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by thomax

CBC Hamilton: City passes new rules to limit parking lots, drive thrus on LRT route

City wants to make sure developments make the most of LRT's potential


City Council voted Wednesday night to enact an interim control bylaw that would restrict the types of developments along
the LRT line.


Oct 28, 2015

The city has a vision of the sort of development it wants to see along the LRT corridor – and it doesn't include parking lots.

Councillors passed an interim control bylaw for the LRT route Wednesday night, which would limit developments along it that aren't conducive to the city's LRT vision during the lead up to the transit system being built.

That includes things like gas stations, drive-thrus, and single-family homes on parcels of land that could house more lucrative developments.

"Do we really want a DQ drive thru where an eight-storey mixed use space should be with an LRT stop?" Ward 2 Coun. Jason Farr said.

The city says it wants the right projects to be built along the King Street corridor — namely, not ones that focus on car traffic. The ideal is a multi-storey condo or apartment building with businesses on the ground floor.

Back in August, Jason Thorne, general manager of planning and economic development, told CBC News that developers were already approaching the city and wanting to build along the route.

Not every councillor was on board about the motion – councillors Chad Collins, Brenda Johnson and Judi Partridge opposed it, and said they were worried that people on the line weren't being given adequate notice.

"The fact is, we're not even communicating with even a simple letter," Collins said.

But Coun. Matthew Green said he "wasn't sure where the panic comes from" about the plan. "This is a planning tool – this isn't a fast move that's being made," he said.

Staff told council that people or companies that are looking to develop on the line but can't are able to appeal to city hall.

The transit line itself will run along King Street from McMaster University to the Queenston traffic circle. A 2.3-kilometre A-line will run from King Street to the waterfront, and a three-kilometre track will connect the main line to the Wentworth maintenance facility.

The city will also build a pedestrian walkway from the Hunter GO station to the MacNab transit terminal.

So the A-Line spur is an actual thing? Very short, but still a start. Looks better on a transit map to have two lines.

Also amazed that got past the suburban-rural dictatorship that is city hall.

[st7860]

Exactly it's a no brainier that stuff like a drive through along the route is inappriatiate

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by st7860

Exactly it's a no brainier that stuff like a drive through along the route is inappriatiate

Drive Thru's in the Downtowns of any city are no brainers. Fredericton's still regretting letting Tim's put one in their DT location. (And finally, after decades of complaints, are supposedly cracking down on the traffic jams it is causing)

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I can't figure out what Brampton City Council is doing. Refusing full funding? Not accepting a route that is a straight arrow between two rapid transit lines? Not wanting LRT to serve their city's downtown? It all seems so fool hardy. Reminds me of Ottawa's stupidity that resulted in $100 million being flushed down the toilet in 2006. But local politics can be pretty unpredictable and fault can be found with every plan. Too bad for Brampton. We will gladly take their funding if they don't want it.

Such a suburbanesque move.

"No need to develop transit, let's just widen the roads!"

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by st7860

Exactly it's a no brainier that stuff like a drive through along the route is inappriatiate

To anyone who lives in a city maybe, but when rural and suburban councillors outnumber the urban ones folks who only ever drive through a neighbourhood tend to get more say than the folks who live there.

[Nouvellecosse]

Does anyone know where I can find the line specific ridership figures for the MTL metro?

[ssiguy]

^ the sad reality is that for Canadian stats you have to go the a US site...........APTA.

www.apta.com has quarterly ridership reports on all US and several major Canadian systems almost always including Montreal. They break down the ridership for each system by mode of transport ie bus, Metro, LRT, commuter rail etc so you should be able to get your stats from there.

They actually get their stats from CUTA but CUTA won't release them for Canadians so you have to go to APTA.

[eemy]

Unfortunately, the annual report for STM doesn't appear to contain that data. That's the only other place I expect you could find data like that. You could scan through yourself and confirm though.

http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/stm/rapport-annuel-stm-2014/2015060801/#150

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Talk about a Tale of Two Cities there. One Embracing the LRT and its potentials, and the other turning its back to it basically. Be interesting to see how things pan out for them in the end.

How badly does Brampton's decision screw KW and the rest of the cities beyond it?

Yes, the Hurontario route always seemed to be part of a regional plan to provide greater connectivity between two future GO RER lines without having to go into downtown Toronto. What Brampton is doing is screwing this up. Even if they offer an alternate route, does it put local interests over regional need? I realize that local riders will be in the majority, but there still needs to be overall regional plan that serves the future for many decades.

[SkahHigh]

Bonaventure Expressway demolition:

[SkahHigh]

According to an article by La Presse this morning, the annual costs of automobile congestion for Canada's three largest cities are:

Toronto: $7 billion
Montreal: $1.7 billion
Vancouver: $1.4 billion

This is why provincial governments should start thinking like Kathleen Wynne and invest massively in transit infrastructure. Luckily, the Trudeau's Liberal government will make these investments easier.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Unfortunately, the annual report for STM doesn't appear to contain that data. That's the only other place I expect you could find data like that. You could scan through yourself and confirm though.

http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/stm/rapport-annuel-stm-2014/2015060801/#150

Yeah I didn't figure it would because I've spent a lot of time searching, but you never know.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

According to an article by La Presse this morning, the annual costs of automobile congestion for Canada's three largest cities are:

Toronto: $7 billion
Montreal: $1.7 billion
Vancouver: $1.4 billion

This is why provincial governments should start thinking like Kathleen Wynne and invest massively in transit infrastructure. Luckily, the Trudeau's Liberal government will make these investments easier.

I wonder how much Montreal's comparatively low figure has to do with the fact that Montreal has built a massive amount of freeways in the past 20 years.

I actually think that the old adage that you can't "build your way out of congestion" applies more to the standard North American approach of just adding lanes to an existing freeway (Toronto is a good - maybe the best - example). Montreal follows the more European model of building a new, parallel 6 lane freeway a few kilometers away from scratch.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I wonder how much Montreal's comparatively low figure has to do with the fact that Montreal has built a massive amount of freeways in the past 20 years.

It'll be largely related to growth rate (population and to a certain extent economic).

But yes, they do have better bones than the GTA for their current population size.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by rbt

It'll be largely related to growth rate (population and to a certain extent economic).

But yes, they do have better bones than the GTA for their current population size.

You're right: Houston builds the same quantity of freeways as Montreal, but since Houston is growing about twice as fast as Montreal, congestion keeps pace.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I wonder how much Montreal's comparatively low figure has to do with the fact that Montreal has built a massive amount of freeways in the past 20 years.

I actually think that the old adage that you can't "build your way out of congestion" applies more to the standard North American approach of just adding lanes to an existing freeway (Toronto is a good - maybe the best - example). Montreal follows the more European model of building a new, parallel 6 lane freeway a few kilometers away from scratch.

Looking at the annual ridership stats, the Montreal metro has annual ridership of about 356 million, and AMT (bus and rail) has about 19 million. The TTC subway has about 325 million and GO transit about 68.2 million. Toronto 393, Montreal 375.

Then compare the populations. the GTA has practically a metro Vancouver over Greater Montreal. Voilà.