[Halifax] The Roy (1650 Granville) | 71 M | 22 FL | Completed

[counterfactual]

Beautiful building!

Starfish coming through for Barrington...

[Keith P.]

I hope they can sell the units. They seem high-end like the Trillium, which took a long time to sell. And the location is not as desirable. Not sure I would want to be on the Barrington side with all those buses.

[someone123]

I think part of Starfish's aim is to transform Barrington into a much more desirable area. It has a different sort of appeal too; less green space but more character. I would love to live in a setting like that, and given the other developments coming along like the Green Lantern reno the street seems to have an enormous amount of potential.

The buses are unfortunate but if you're up a few floors and behind the setback like the one they have the noise and exhaust probably isn't that bad. Presumably those units all have AC. It's horrible to have to choose between boiling in your apartment or listening to loud traffic all night in the summer.

This ties back in with the transit thread in that I wish something would be done about transit in the urban core. Transit in Halifax seems to be widely viewed as a utilitarian service where frills are a waste, and traditionally there's been a big slant toward coverage rather than service quality.

I've been to Portland, Oregon a few times and was back there a couple of weeks ago. They have several streetcar routes that carry about as many passengers as Halifax's main transit corridors. It's easy to imagine a similar service in Halifax when you see how they operate in Portland (the level of development/traffic, street widths, and topography are all in the same general ballpark). They're fairly old at this point but they are still much nicer than buses. A narrow street with electric streetcar service is a completely different environment from one filled with roaring diesel buses.

One of the novel things about Portland (for North America) is that the streetcar addition was driven partly to increase the desirability of the inner city and promote development. Moving the largest number of people around as quickly and cheaply as possible was not the sole or even necessarily the prime motivation. An enormous amount of real estate development occurred near the streetcar lines after they went in, generating extra income for the city and offsetting the cost. Had this spinoff effect been overlooked the streetcars would have looked like a very bad investment. Unfortunately, the commuter rail study makes exactly that mistake and Halifax is not even to the point of seriously considering new forms of transit for the urban core.

[Nouvellecosse]

^ Can you post your recommended streetcar route in the rail transportation thread?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

^ Can you post your recommended streetcar route in the rail transportation thread?

It might be fun to make some new routes up if I have time, not that I am a transit expert.

One thing that has changed is that the Cogswell redevelopment isn't too far off, and commuter rail might happen. I think an interesting route would be one that links up the South End rail station to downtown, serves the new Cogswell neighbourhood, then follows Gottingen through the North End, Stadacona, shipyard, and some areas chosen for development potential (e.g. Young Street). This isn't unlike the classic pre-war streetcar route along Barrington. Maybe you could even get away with just streetcars and community shuttles on the peninsula. The streetcar would connect up with commuter rail, MetroLink, and the ferries.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think part of Starfish's aim is to transform Barrington into a much more desirable area. It has a different sort of appeal too; less green space but more character. I would love to live in a setting like that, and given the other developments coming along like the Green Lantern reno the street seems to have an enormous amount of potential.

The buses are unfortunate but if you're up a few floors and behind the setback like the one they have the noise and exhaust probably isn't that bad. Presumably those units all have AC. It's horrible to have to choose between boiling in your apartment or listening to loud traffic all night in the summer.

This ties back in with the transit thread in that I wish something would be done about transit in the urban core. Transit in Halifax seems to be widely viewed as a utilitarian service where frills are a waste, and traditionally there's been a big slant toward coverage rather than service quality.

I've been to Portland, Oregon a few times and was back there a couple of weeks ago. They have several streetcar routes that carry about as many passengers as Halifax's main transit corridors. It's easy to imagine a similar service in Halifax when you see how they operate in Portland (the level of development/traffic, street widths, and topography are all in the same general ballpark). They're fairly old at this point but they are still much nicer than buses. A narrow street with electric streetcar service is a completely different environment from one filled with roaring diesel buses.

One of the novel things about Portland (for North America) is that the streetcar addition was driven partly to increase the desirability of the inner city and promote development. Moving the largest number of people around as quickly and cheaply as possible was not the sole or even necessarily the prime motivation. An enormous amount of real estate development occurred near the streetcar lines after they went in, generating extra income for the city and offsetting the cost. Had this spinoff effect been overlooked the streetcars would have looked like a very bad investment. Unfortunately, the commuter rail study makes exactly that mistake and Halifax is not even to the point of seriously considering new forms of transit for the urban core.

Great post.

Also -- highlighted part -- this essentially happened again recently, with the supposed "bold" review of the Transit routes in Halifax. After being directed by Council to be "bold"-- and members of the public clearly expressing that they prefer quick/reliable service in the key corridors over wide (but slow) coverage, Transit officials came back with... really, nothing. Some "tweaks".

No shock there. Big changes in transit, including moving to LRT or street cars, means a lot of work for bureaucrats. So, officials do not favor such changes.

[Agricola]

It appears in the model and the renderings that a railing type thing runs along the front top section of the podium right over the Vogue building. Does this mean they are going to modify the roof of the Vogue building? It was my impression that Starfish did not own it.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Agricola

It appears in the model and the renderings that a railing type thing runs along the front top section of the podium right over the Vogue building. Does this mean they are going to modify the roof of the Vogue building? It was my impression that Starfish did not own it.

I think Starfish purchased the Vogue building a while back.

I am happy they didn't modify their plans and tear it down. It's better to have a variety of buildings on every block.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Overall, I do think it will be a nice project when finished and I hope that it will do all for Barrington that its cheerleaders have surmised.

Have there been any indications about paying homage to The Roy on the Barrington Street side? The model looks heritage-y in that area, but still haven't heard any details as to how it will done.

I recall that the original plan was to save materials from which the facade would be rebuilt, but I also recall that said original materials where trucked away to "the dump" at demolition.

[halifaxboyns]

I asked for a price on the 3 bedroom units out of curiosity - the 3 bedroom 'bridge' suites (which are on the upper floors) are 1.389 million $.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I asked for a price on the 3 bedroom units out of curiosity - the 3 bedroom 'bridge' suites (which are on the upper floors) are 1.389 million $.

Chump change.

[Nouvellecosse]

Who in Halifax that can afford that is going to live in a downtown condo? I'd like to be optimistic, but I just don't see it...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Who in Halifax that can afford that is going to live in a downtown condo? I'd like to be optimistic, but I just don't see it...

But isn't downtown condo living the pinnacle of existence? Why would somebody who can afford it not want to live in the best part of the city?

[Nouvellecosse]

But yeah, I think there's a tipping point between when the draw of a downtown from things like prestige, excitement and convenience starts to outweigh the concept of value for money as measured in terms of space (both indoor and outdoor). It would be nice to think we're there already, but I'd say even Toronto and Vancouver have only recently arrived.

It's fairly easy to support mid-range condos, because even if there's only interest from a small percentage of those who can afford them, the mid-range market is large enough that a small percentage is still significant. Much less so for the high end market. But I suppose if it's only a few condos they might just pull it off.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Chump change.

I figured something like one I saw in Calgary - around 850k; but when I saw two comas I fell off my chair. Event the stuff in East Village that I'm looking at to buy (here in Calgary) isn't that expensive on the lower floors. Granted; this is 3 bedroom.

[Colin May]

There are 9 unsold units in The Trillium priced from $486,000 to $1,742,000 and the building was completed more than 3 years ago.

1103-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $504,000
703-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $486,000
1901-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $1,742,700
801-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $840,800
1003-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $500,400
1102-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $511,200
804-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $690,500
1203-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $508,500
803-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $486,000

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Colin May

There are 9 unsold units in The Trillium priced from $486,000 to $1,742,000 and the building was completed more than 3 years ago.

1103-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $504,000
703-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $486,000
1901-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $1,742,700
801-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $840,800
1003-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $500,400
1102-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $511,200
804-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $690,500
1203-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $508,500
803-1445 SOUTH PARK ST HALIFAX $486,000

Seeing as there are 84 units in the place, and *all* of the units are in this range, I'd say that's not bad.

[Nouvellecosse]

That's... quite a range though. How many were there over a million? Or over 3/4 million?

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

But yeah, I think there's a tipping point between when the draw of a downtown from things like prestige, excitement and convenience starts to outweigh the concept of value for money as measured in terms of space (both indoor and outdoor). It would be nice to think we're there already, but I'd say even Toronto and Vancouver have only recently arrived.

It's fairly easy to support mid-range condos, because even if there's only interest from a small percentage of those who can afford them, the mid-range market is large enough that a small percentage is still significant. Much less so for the high end market. But I suppose if it's only a few condos they might just pull it off.

Could be right.

But I think we're also underestimating just how wealthy the now retiring Baby Boomers are. It's the wealthiest generation in human history, who lived through the an unprecedented period of economic growth and radical increases in property value. think a lot of Boomers are selling off principal residences (and taking advantage of the capital gains cap on that disposition). Halifax is probably a nice retirement City; much more relaxed, easier to get around than big, hectic, clogged, smoggy, bigger cities, with traffic jams all over.

[counterfactual]

Also,

From the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation Report of Halifax's housing market, all of these apartment and condo starts are simply keeping up with project strong demand due to downsizing.

Source: http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/odpub/esub/64267/64267_2015_B02.pdf?fr=1445951889636

The rise in apartment starts also coincided with a sharp increase in the number of units under construction. As of August 2015, more than 2,896 apartment units were under construction including 616 condominium units and 2,280 rental apartments. The demand keeping the rental market construction above its recent average continues to be supported by an increasing segment of the aging population choosing to downsize. As a result, expect 1,500 apartment units to break ground in 2016 and 1,400 in 2017. This level of construction will keep the distribution of all construction activity heavily weighted toward apartment starts at around 80 per cent.

Also:

The significant change in today’s
household composition has spurred
demand from aging households
who are electing to downsize to
smaller, maintenance free footprints.
This is the opposite of what the
baby boomer generation did after
they left the family nest to join the
labour market back in the 1970s. The
magnitude of this change has been felt
for the past five years. As evidence, the
rental universe grew by 10 per cent
over the past four years, now standing
at an estimated total of 44,423 units
in fall 2014. The intensity of this trend
remained continuous throughout this
period, as the number of units under
construction rarely dipped below
the 2,000 level. To provide some
perspective, 1979 marked the last
year where apartment units under
construction reached 2,000.

And:

Demand for rental units will remain
strong over the forecast period, yet
the supply of new units in 2017 will
offset demand.