General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[biggus diggus]

For what it's worth I ride 3rd Street all the time and I think due to he width of the street and general lightness of traffic (except at a couple of intersections) it's one of the better streets to ride on.

The coffee bar at Ocotillo is great.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

For what it's worth I ride 3rd Street all the time and I think due to he width of the street and general lightness of traffic (except at a couple of intersections) it's one of the better streets to ride on.

The coffee bar at Ocotillo is great.

I think that's why the city is considering the street for bike lanes. There's plenty of capacity to spare without bike lanes causing carmageddon, and bike lanes, especially buffered or protected ones, are helpful to slow, non-vehicular cyclists like me. I rode back to my office from lunch via 5th Avenue, even though doing so took me half a mile out of my way, because I feel so much more comfortable with that street and its bike lanes.

[Red Robot]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Nice intro. Thanks for de-lurking. I haven't tried the coffee house at Ocotillo, but I had lunch in the restaurant there today -- my second time doing so. Great food and atmosphere. I'm hearing rumors Third Street may soon be transformed with bike lanes, which will make it even easier for me to get there from my office. That street has so much unrealized potential right now.

The coffee shop at Ocotillo is great, I'm particularly fond of their cold brewed coffee. It's a good seed for midtown. I hear rumors that the owner plans to develop housing of some sort on some of the empty lots on the other side of Flower St too.

Bike lanes down 3rd St will be a great improvement. I tend to favor Central Ave or 3rd/5th Ave when heading south, but I do use 3rd St from time to time. I'm comfortable riding with traffic, but I know many people aren't, so it should encourage others to utilize it too. The more cyclists we get riding in the street, the safer all cyclists will be.

On the subject of 3rd St, I must share my constant sorrow at the sight of that monstrous datacenter the city allowed to be built immediately against the sidewalk on the west side of the street, just south of Indian School. For all the city's talk about wanting to improve 3rd St and connect Steele Indian School Park with the rest of the city, I cannot fathom anything that could have damaged that future potential more.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I think that's why the city is considering the street for bike lanes. There's plenty of capacity to spare without bike lanes causing carmageddon, and bike lanes, especially buffered or protected ones, are helpful to slow, non-vehicular cyclists like me. I rode back to my office from lunch via 5th Avenue, even though doing so took me half a mile out of my way, because I feel so much more comfortable with that street and its bike lanes.

I hear you, but I will go way out of my way to avoid the "protected" bike lanes as they put you in a cage and often times you don't have a safe exit route if you need one; some of the worst ones are on Hardy where they actually have you riding on a sidewalk marked as a bike lane and crossing streets on the sidewalk, it's astoundingly dangerous. They even half poles in the center of the lane at some spots and speed tables, it's like the X Games for cycling.

Bike lanes are a false sense of security anyway, the truth is that being hit from behind is one of the least likely ways to be hit on a bicycle, it's usually someone right-hooking you our pulling out in front of you typically caused by misjudging your speed or simply not seeing you. I have been hit and it was near deadly (actually I don't understand how I didn't die) and it was a left turn in front of me... I'll ride on almost any street in the city and traffic piling up behind me is never really worse than "I'm uncomfortable pissing all of these people off at once".

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I hear you, but I will go way out of my way to avoid the "protected" bike lanes as they put you in a cage and often times you don't have a safe exit route if you need one; some of the worst ones are on Hardy where they actually have you riding on a sidewalk marked as a bike lane and crossing streets on the sidewalk, it's astoundingly dangerous. They even half poles in the center of the lane at some spots and speed tables, it's like the X Games for cycling.

Bike lanes are a false sense of security anyway, the truth is that being hit from behind is one of the least likely ways to be hit on a bicycle, it's usually someone right-hooking you our pulling out in front of you typically caused by misjudging your speed or simply not seeing you. I have been hit and it was near deadly (actually I don't understand how I didn't die) and it was a left turn in front of me... I'll ride on almost any street in the city and traffic piling up behind me is never really worse than "I'm uncomfortable pissing all of these people off at once".

Hardy is a disaster because Tempe planners got too creative with a ridiculous design. Generally, though, I want bike lanes when I ride on collectors or arterials, so let's agree to disagree on that issue.

[biggus diggus]

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I hear you, but I will go way out of my way to avoid the "protected" bike lanes as they put you in a cage and often times you don't have a safe exit route if you need one; some of the worst ones are on Hardy where they actually have you riding on a sidewalk marked as a bike lane and crossing streets on the sidewalk, it's astoundingly dangerous. They even half poles in the center of the lane at some spots and speed tables, it's like the X Games for cycling.

I know they're lambasted, but I like those bike lane designs on Hardy. Although I rode my bike up and down ASU's campus when I was in school there with 23842983423 students, skateboards and maintenance vehicles (talk about obstacles) so I feel I'm a professional biker. Going up and down sidewalks, speed tables, bridges, and in and around a few poles makes things more interesting.

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by Red Robot

even as an Ohio transplant, but I've always been optimistic about the future of the core of the city. This is home to me, not Ohio.

Welcome, where are you from in Ohio? I moved here about 5 years ago from Lima (by way of Toledo).

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Going up and down sidewalks, speed tables, bridges, and in and around a few poles makes things more interesting.

In the absence of traffic, I'd completely agree. It's having to cross intersections on the sidewalk and angle the bicycle in weird, unexpected ways when cars are nearby that have made the new Hardy bike lanes so unpopular. Fortunately, there are nearby alternatives. When I used to work in the area, I would often use Beck or Roosevelt for north-south travel. I'd definitely choose either one over Hardy if I were riding in that area today.

[Red Robot]

Originally Posted by nickw252

Welcome, where are you from in Ohio? I moved here about 5 years ago from Lima (by way of Toledo).

I was born in Toledo, both sides of my family have long ties to the area, lots of relatives still there. We moved to Granville, east of Columbus when I was in grade school, but would visit Toledo often.

I came to Phoenix to go to college, I could have chosen anywhere really, but it's always sunny here, and as a bonus it's nearly 2000 miles from home.

I have come to appreciate Ohio more as I've gotten older, I always enjoy exploring Columbus when I go back to visit, it's a great city. Even Toledo has seen some renewed urbanism. Every time I visit and come back to Phoenix though, I'm reminded just how young and new this place is.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Huh, more Ohioans here than I thought (I'm from Cincinnati)

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by Red Robot

I have come to appreciate Ohio more as I've gotten older,

I have too. Lots of great things in Ohio that you don't realize until you're gone. I go back and visit family periodically and always enjoy the nice summer weather, boating, fishing, etc.

[biggus diggus]

Everyone who realized Ohio, Illinois, or Indiana sucks moved here. I wonder if there's anywhere I could find stats breaking down each states population based on what state they moved from.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Everyone who realized Ohio, Illinois, or Indiana sucks moved here. I wonder if there's anywhere I could find stats breaking down each states population based on what state they moved from.

There are different ways the data has been presented. Here's one of many:

http://www.citylab.com/housing/2014/02/detailed-map-net-migration-flows-every-us-county/8326/

[biggus diggus]

Thanks, that's interesting. Also cool they highlighted Maricopa County.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Everyone who realized Ohio, Illinois, or Indiana sucks moved here. I wonder if there's anywhere I could find stats breaking down each states population based on what state they moved from.

The only thing that sucks about Ohio is the winter weather. Ohio has many great things that Arizona doesn't have...from 2 of the best amusement parks in the country to some great fall festivals that Arizona just can't rival. There are some great state parks like Clifton Gorge, Hocking Hills, etc. and the colors and weather in fall are amazing.

I didn't learn to appreciate those aspects of Ohio before moving here. I've often thought about moving back...then I think of winter and remember why I moved. But sometimes i wonder "Was it worth it?". My answer is "So far, so good"

[locolife]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

The only thing that sucks about Ohio is the winter weather. Ohio has many great things that Arizona doesn't have...from 2 of the best amusement parks in the country to some great fall festivals that Arizona just can't rival. There are some great state parks like Clifton Gorge, Hocking Hills, etc. and the colors and weather in fall are amazing.

I didn't learn to appreciate those aspects of Ohio before moving here. I've often thought about moving back...then I think of winter and remember why I moved. But sometimes i wonder "Was it worth it?". My answer is "So far, so good"

I can totally relate, except on the opposite side of the spectrum. I moved to the East Coast for about 5 years and I missed so many of the unique things about the Southwest: The weather, food, festivals and scenery just can't be touched anywhere east of the Mississippi in my opinion, although in all fairness I have not explored Ohio much. I was living in Boston, which I suppose most urban enthusiasts would assume is a city that beats the pants off Phoenix. I was wicked disappointed to learn I couldn't drive 2 hours and be in a completely different natural setting... They did have some great seafood though... although even that I've been able to replace here, Another great aspect of Phoenix is all of you transplants really help bring the entire country's best food into one place. Not so true when looking for great Mexican in the Northeast..

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

The only thing that sucks about Ohio is the winter weather. Ohio has many great things that Arizona doesn't have...from 2 of the best amusement parks in the country to some great fall festivals that Arizona just can't rival. There are some great state parks like Clifton Gorge, Hocking Hills, etc. and the colors and weather in fall are amazing.

I didn't learn to appreciate those aspects of Ohio before moving here. I've often thought about moving back...then I think of winter and remember why I moved. But sometimes i wonder "Was it worth it?". My answer is "So far, so good"

Indeed. If I didn't have crippling asthma attacks that required hospitalization as a result of the climate east of Denver, I'd consider moving back to Ohio.

That said, the dry climate here really cured a lot of what ailed me and there's just enough of Fall and Winter in Flagstaff that I don't have any real desire to move back to Ohio. I don't think I could handle the constant gray dreariness from November to March that's so prevalent back east anymore.

And with Allegiant Air seemingly hell bent on making Cincinnati's CVG airport a Midwest hub, flights back home for visits are a hell of a lot cheaper than they used to be from Mesa Gateway.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Indeed. If I didn't have crippling asthma attacks that required hospitalization as a result of the climate east of Denver, I'd consider moving back to Ohio.

That said, the dry climate here really cured a lot of what ailed me and there's just enough of Fall and Winter in Flagstaff that I don't have any real desire to move back to Ohio. I don't think I could handle the constant gray dreariness from November to March that's so prevalent back east anymore.

And with Allegiant Air seemingly hell bent on making Cincinnati's CVG airport a Midwest hub, flights back home for visits are a hell of a lot cheaper than they used to be from Mesa Gateway.

That's an interesting take on life here, I knew in the past Phoenix was considered a haven for those suffering from lung oriented illness but I had heard/read so many articles about how that's no longer true due to some kind of combination of non-native landscaping that's been planted here and the amount of particulates in the air around the valley now.

Glad to hear not everyone is experiencing issues with those things.

[Buckeye Native 001]

My biggest asthma/allergy trigger was mold. My family moved out to Phoenix in late 1996 on a recommendation from my doctor in Cincinnati who said the dry air of the Southwest would be a major improvement. My parents decided on Arizona because my dad's grandmother moved to Tempe from Cincinnati back in the late 1960s when she was diagnosed with emphysema and was somewhat familiar with the area. He also recalled that the move greatly improved her quality of life (she lived for another 10 or 11 years after moving to Arizona).

Phoenix was already pretty big by 1996 and had a lot of transplants from the Midwest bringing plants with them that shouldn't be grown here. My biggest ailment was mold that seems to grow a lot better in humid environments. Other types of pollen and air pollution don't really bother me all that much (I've lived in and around Los Angeles for five years since moving west).