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  #6101  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2015, 1:32 AM
J21bird J21bird is offline
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  #6102  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2015, 4:30 AM
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OMG why couldn't that place of burned down instead of the store next to it.
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  #6103  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2015, 6:52 AM
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Metro Denver's condo crunch pushing prices up

     
     
  #6104  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2015, 4:02 PM
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3330 Brighton Boulevard - where the crane collapsed; is that The Source Hotel site?
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  #6105  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2015, 4:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
3330 Brighton Boulevard - where the crane collapsed; is that The Source Hotel site?
The picture looks like the Source Hotel? Which is 3350 Brighton, so I'm guessing that?

Article: http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_290355...-collapses-denver-near-33rd-and-brighton

Edit: Much better picture http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/10/28/crane-collapse-forces-evacuation-of-nearby-buildings/. Says happened at Source Parking garage under construction.
     
     
  #6106  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2015, 5:03 PM
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Apparently the ground wasn't as solid as it appeared. Maybe an old basement?
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  #6107  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2015, 9:49 PM
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I can see it from work. Crappy over processed cell phone shot of the source. Complete with Flatiron Flyers.

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  #6108  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2015, 10:39 PM
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Seventwenty, I could probably guess which company you work for.
     
     
  #6109  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2015, 10:46 PM
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Seventwenty, I could probably guess which company you work for.
Ohhh, me too!
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  #6110  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2015, 11:06 PM
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Headlines and Headlights

Landlords will love this: Denver is 4th-best city in US for owning rental property

Metro Denver sees 2nd highest construction job gain in the nation

Most expensive Colorado city for rent? It's not Denver

Lowry landing affordable, market-rate housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventwenty View Post
Defects ordinance set to pass Denver city counsel in November: http://m.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/cap...uncil-panel-overwhelmingly-supports.html
That was very encouraging. Not only do they seem to have a comfortable majority for passing a construction defects fix but Denver added their own punch as well. From the article:
Quote:
But Denver takes a new tact as well, offering a legal defense to builders if any purported defect met the standards of the city building code. And it requires that homeowners prove actual damage or a threat to their future safety, rather than just poor construction, before they proceed.
I'd be curious what bunt thinks. I saw it as not only giving the builders better protection on the one hand but also on the other hand making them responsible for following the codes. Regardless of inspections, builders are ultimately responsible for meeting code requirements.

What is clear is that the pace of residential construction should be increasing across the metro area where rents in Boulder, Greenwood Village and Louisville exceed downtown Denver. There's always Pueblo, we're reminded, if you don't mind a longer commute.


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  #6111  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2015, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post

I'd be curious what bunt thinks. I saw it as not only giving the builders better protection on the one hand but also on the other hand making them responsible for following the codes. Regardless of inspections, builders are ultimately responsible for meeting code requirements.
I think it's a very clever, well-done ordinance and I strongly support it. Looking at each of the three parts:

The City got a huge assist from the Court of Appeals. Probably the most powerful aspect of this - making it so binding arbitration stays binding - is just a codification of the Vallagio decision. You'll recall when that decision came out earlier this year I suggested it gives a roadmap for future drafters to create a defensible declaration, and probably did for us longer-term, on new projects (but not existing ones) what the legislature has failed to do. So this was already the law, Denver just crystallized it.

I am skeptical that standing behind the City's building codes does much - I think it's the weakest leg. It doesn't prevent the argument from still being made that code violations exist, and presumably damages would always have needed to be demonstrated if they ever got that far. I doubt there are many real world examples of strict liability coming into play. Most cases settle, and this probably doesn't affect that much. It does, however, give the City better legal cover for the ordinance, as this is a well established area where cities are unquestionably permitted to speak.

The real meat of this, apart from restating Vallagio, is the requirement that a majority of homeowners agree to litigation. It's also the area where the City, I would think, is on the shakiest legal ground. But it's brilliant to pull this specific piece of the oft-failed legislation to include. It is simultaneously the provision that the plaintiff's bar probably hates the most, as well as the safest politically. It "sounds" fair and reasonable to require a majority of homeowners to agree - more fair than giving the developer a right to remedy - and still makes it infinitely harder to sue, assuming the provision survives the first time somebody uses it to toss a case.

I like the ordinance as much for the message it sends as for any substantive legal change. I don't think it hurts to wave a flag and alert developers that their mandatory arbitration provisions will survive loss of declarant control, which is what the City is doing. I do think this helps.
     
     
  #6112  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2015, 3:07 PM
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Agreed..this is exciting..

As for code violations. This is new construction and Denver inspectors really do not miss much...so it's caught prior to CO and prior to sale, so this should work.
     
     
  #6113  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2015, 3:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunt_q View Post
I think it's a very clever, well-done ordinance and I strongly support it. Looking at each of the three parts:

The City got a huge assist from the Court of Appeals. Probably the most powerful aspect of this - making it so binding arbitration stays binding - is just a codification of the Vallagio decision. You'll recall when that decision came out earlier this year I suggested it gives a roadmap for future drafters to create a defensible declaration, and probably did for us longer-term, on new projects (but not existing ones) what the legislature has failed to do. So this was already the law, Denver just crystallized it.

I am skeptical that standing behind the City's building codes does much - I think it's the weakest leg. It doesn't prevent the argument from still being made that code violations exist, and presumably damages would always have needed to be demonstrated if they ever got that far. I doubt there are many real world examples of strict liability coming into play. Most cases settle, and this probably doesn't affect that much. It does, however, give the City better legal cover for the ordinance, as this is a well established area where cities are unquestionably permitted to speak.

The real meat of this, apart from restating Vallagio, is the requirement that a majority of homeowners agree to litigation. It's also the area where the City, I would think, is on the shakiest legal ground. But it's brilliant to pull this specific piece of the oft-failed legislation to include. It is simultaneously the provision that the plaintiff's bar probably hates the most, as well as the safest politically. It "sounds" fair and reasonable to require a majority of homeowners to agree - more fair than giving the developer a right to remedy - and still makes it infinitely harder to sue, assuming the provision survives the first time somebody uses it to toss a case.

I like the ordinance as much for the message it sends as for any substantive legal change. I don't think it hurts to wave a flag and alert developers that their mandatory arbitration provisions will survive loss of declarant control, which is what the City is doing. I do think this helps.

Will this make a difference? If I follow the logic of "construction defects litigation risk is preventing condo construction" crowd it goes like this:

1. Builders won't build condos because they are afraid of litigation risk for construction defects.

2. Also, this risk makes it prohibitively expensive to get appropriate insurance.


As discussed on here previously, the big issue is whether Denver or any other City has the right to legislate in this area given existing state wide legislation. It doesn't really matter what I think (I think it's doubtful). It matters only what developers and/or insurers think.

Will this cause developers to now take a "risk" they previously have been unwilling to (assuming that's true)? Is there any evidence of movement in other cities which have adopted ordinances on this issue?

Knowing the general risk aversion of developers and insurers, I suspect that the lack of clarity around the validity of these ordinances will largely leave us stuck in the status quo. As you note, there is still value in pushing the issue and perhaps the legislature will finally take notice and resolve the issue.

Next year is an election year so both lobbying and campaign donations have at least some hope of making a difference.

Last edited by CherryCreek; Oct 29, 2015 at 3:47 PM.
     
     
  #6114  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2015, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post
Will this make a difference? If I follow the logic of "construction defects litigation risk is preventing condo construction" crowd it goes like this:

1. Builders won't build condos because they are afraid of litigation risk for construction defects.

2. Also, this risk makes it prohibitively expensive to get appropriate insurance.


As discussed on here previously, the big issue is whether Denver or any other City has the right to legislate in this area given existing state wide legislation. It doesn't really matter what I think (I think it's doubtful). It matters only what developers and/or insurers think.

Will this cause developers to now take a "risk" they previously have been unwilling to (assuming that's true)? Is there any evidence of movement in other cities which have adopted ordinances on this issue?

Knowing the general risk aversion of developers and insurers, I suspect that the lack of clarity around the validity of these ordinances will largely leave us stuck in the status quo. As you note, there is still value in pushing the issue and perhaps the legislature will finally take notice and resolve the issue.

Next year is an election year so both lobbying and campaign donations have at least some hope of making a difference.
I don't think you're analyzing this deeply enough. Whether the City can legislate in "this area" depends on the area we are talking about, and the specifics of the proposed ordinance. You can't really compare this to the ordinances of other cities, because they are each a little bit different, and Denver's dramatically so.

There is no question that Denver has the power to say what its codes can/cannot be used for. I am not sure that makes much difference, but it'll certainly stand up.

I am not sure whether Denver has the legal authority to require a majority of homeowners to sue. I am skeptical myself, but I think that one goes 50/50 - it's not as questionable as an ordinance that requires a right to remedy, which doesn't exist in CDARA - so there's a good chance it survives. It adds to CDARA, but doesn't contradict it. However, for the sake of looking at whether builders get any comfort, let's just ignore this one.

That brings us to the third leg - the codification of the Vallagio decision. I don't think anyone is saying the Court of Appeals didn't have the legal authority to interpret CCIOA, that's ludicrous. So insurers can clearly rely on it. The question is - what does this do for litigation risk? Borrowing the language of the City Attorney's office:

"Vallagio stands for the proposition that the original developer of a condominium project can structure the declaration of covenants in a way that permanently governs the procedures for any future construction defect claims, and prevents HOAs from amending or repealing the covenant without the consent of the original declarant. In [Vallagio] the covenants required binding arbitration for any construction defect claims, and advised prospective condo purchasers that the developer's ability and willingness to build and market the project was absolutely based upon the homebuyer's acceptance of the binding arbitration requirement for construction defect claims. The proposed Denver ordinance would institutionalize the Vallagio holding by saying that when a new common interest community is created in Denver, and the declaration of covenants clearly advises homebuyers of a requirement for binding arbitration of construction defect claims while stating that this requirement cannot be eliminated without the consent of the original declarant, then city law recognizes such covenant as being binding and inviolate."


I think mandatory binding arbitration, which is now supported by both the courts and the City, is absolutely something that gives insurers comfort. And since there is no question about whether the City has legal authority to legislate in this area, since the Court of Appeals did that for them, I think your analysis is off. None of the other ordinances have, to my knowledge, addressed this point, so comparisons are meaningless.

Of course, nothing moves more slowly than insurers, so short of legislative action, this will still take some time. But I believe it might work, even without further legislative action.
     
     
  #6115  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2015, 4:32 PM
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No....developers cannot get the insurance, or it is so insanely expensive, that there are better projects to go do instead.

Easy litigation and expensive outcomes lead insurers to crank their rates...what's funny is that they have actual come down *a little* since they were selling so few policies in CO.

That said, none of this will drive a ton of moderately priced housing unless and until the market demands it - high end condos will come first so be prepared for some outcry

Last edited by bcp; Oct 29, 2015 at 4:52 PM.
     
     
  #6116  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2015, 4:54 PM
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Chances are that even more significant than the legalese is the politics of this.

Assuming passage by a comfortable margin, you'll have the largest, most Dem city in the metro area and state putting their cards on the table for a fix. Would a minority of too ideological liberals still try to hold the state hostage to their passionate minority position? Sure it's possible; all you have to do is look to the extreme right in Congress where they'd rather have chaos than bother with the ordinary and necessary business of the country.

Let's hope that the more ideological Colorado Dems show more wisdom than their conservative counterparts in Washington D.C.
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  #6117  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2015, 7:03 PM
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So more apartments that will get turned into condos later?
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  #6118  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2015, 7:15 PM
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Has the ship sailed on converting the Confluence into condos (while still in development)?
     
     
  #6119  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2015, 7:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dirt View Post
Has the ship sailed on converting the Confluence into condos (while still in development)?
I don't believe that PMRG ever considered condos. For example, they built this luxury apartment in Dallas that includes a Whole Food Market in Mid-town which would be similar to Cherry Creek.
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  #6120  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2015, 7:49 PM
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Saw this in a thread for Atlanta. Thought it was interesting. They tend to build fairly tall. Don't really know much more.

https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/comm...who-eyeing-two-more-51590?rt=title_alt_1

Quote:
The Trillist Cos is planning another Yoo. And maybe another after that for Atlanta.

Asked when Trillist will break ground on that parcel, Scott says, “We're planning on next year.” And that may not be the last Trillist multifamily project. Scott says the firm is eyeing another unidentified site in Midtown, as well as sites in Charlotte, Dallas and Denver for Yoo projects.
     
     
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