Green Line LRT - $4.6 Billion Project

[MalcolmTucker]

Council hasn't made that decision yet, and administration can only go off their direction from council.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Report so be presented to city council:

http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sirepub/...gudwmgcgeswl/37312710132015090656477.PDF

Looks like the plan is to still build a BRT then go to LRT later. I thought with the additional funding LRT could be built right away.

Link above doesn't work.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Report so be presented to city council:

http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sirepub/...hjsycbghgrwy/37312710132015114450279.PDF

Looks like the plan is to still build a BRT then go to LRT later. I thought with the additional funding LRT could be built right away.

Link is fixed

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Report so be presented to city council:

http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sirepub/...gudwmgcgeswl/37312710132015090656477.PDF

Looks like the plan is to still build a BRT then go to LRT later. I thought with the additional funding LRT could be built right away.

Are you sure about that?

Originally Posted by doc

Southeast and north Calgary have long envisioned an LRT system serving the far reaches of the city. In the absence of sufficient funding for LRT, alternate options were developed to address transit needs. This included plans to construct a Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) system that could be converted to LRT in stages, as funding became available. In July 2015, the Federal Government announced $1.53 billion from the Public Transit Fund for the construction of the Green Line LRT. This funding announcement offers an opportunity to bypass the staged implementation approach, and deliver LRT on opening day. The planning work completed on the southeast leg of the Green Line to date has been done with the future LRT in mind, and will continue to be applicable for both Transitway and LRT systems.

[Wooster]

It'll go straight to LRT.

[ggopher]

The report doesn't mention anything about starting with BRT. It will go to LRT as soon as possible (which will still take many years). The report only recommends the alignment and station locations for the SE portion of the Green Line.

A brief summary of the alignment recommendation is provided below:
Inglewood/Ramsay – The alignment adjacent to Canadian Pacific Railway (CP) remains the same however, the profile was revised to provide an elevated bridge station at 11th Street S.E. This elevated alternative follows the CP alignment behind the Snowdon building and Ramsay Design Centre. Subject to CP’s final approval, this recommendation can be accommodated primarily within the railway corridor, by incorporating a relocation of CP’s existing tracks to make room for the elevated guideway on the east side of 11th Street S.E.
Highfield – In coordination with Water Resources, the alignment has been revised further west and south to accommodate the future Bonnybrook Wastewater Treatment Plant expansion.
Ogden – The alignment transitions from the Canadian National Railway right-of-way to the west side of Ogden Road and includes a tunnel under Ogden Road to rejoin with the CP right-of-way on the east side of Ogden Road at 69 Avenue S.E.
Quarry Park – Shifted 200 meters to the west, to the edge of the Quarry Park dry waste landfill and parallel to 24th Street S.E., the alignment fronts the existing Quarry Park employment
centre.

The following is a summary of the recommended station location changes:
Inglewood/Ramsay Station – Elevated bridge station over 11th Street S.E. and connecting the communities of Inglewood and Ramsay.
Highfield Station – Relocated to the north side of Highfield Boulevard, the station avoids a major overhead power line transmission tower and supports a currently proposed development site.
Lynnwood/Millican Station – Relocated to the south side of Millican Road, the station is accessible via Millican Road and adjacent to Pop Davies Park.
Ogden Station – Centrally located in the community at the intersection of 72nd Avenue/25th Street/Ogden Road S.E. where it is more accessible and offers redevelopment opportunity.
Quarry Park Station – Located adjacent to 24th Street S.E. and easily accessed by both north and south Quarry Park Boulevard intersections.

Source: From the Cover Report for the GREEN LINE SOUTHEAST ALIGNMENT AND STATIONS Report presented to Transportation Report to SPC on Transportation and Transit 2015 October 14.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by ggopher

The report doesn't mention anything about starting with BRT. It will go to LRT as soon as possible (which will still take many years). The report only recommends the alignment and station locations for the SE portion of the Green Line.

"Southeast and north Calgary have long envisioned an LRT system serving the far reaches of the city. In the absence of sufficient funding for LRT, alternate options were developed to address transit needs. This included plans to construct a Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) system that could be converted to LRT in stages, as funding became available. In July 2015, the Federal Government announced $1.53 billion from the Public Transit Fund for the construction of the Green Line LRT. This funding announcement offers an opportunity to bypass the staged implementation approach, and deliver LRT on opening day. The planning work completed on the southeast leg of the Green Line to date has been done with the future LRT in mind, and will continue to be applicable for both Transitway and LRT systems."

Source: Green Line Southeast Where we are & where we’re going
Page 7 of 20

Let's see if this link works this time: http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sirepub/...x1pxqoadt3lw/37312710142015083241465.PDF

[Wooster]

There's a federal government commitment, I'd expect provincial and municipal commitments for the full $4.5 billion within weeks.

The RouteAhead mode progression for Green Line was written as a "no later than" must we need LRT. If funding comes sooner for LRT, it'll be LRT.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by Wooster

There's a federal government commitment, I'd expect provincial and municipal commitments for the full $4.5 billion within weeks.

The RouteAhead mode progression for Green Line was written as a "no later than" must we need LRT. If funding comes sooner for LRT, it'll be LRT.

I hope you are right, but I personally don't expect the provincial government to open up their wallets anytime soon.

[MalcolmTucker]

Umm, what?

Expect a $1 billion a year boost to infrastructure spending going forward. They've committed to finishing off the original GreenTRIP envelope by 2021, and if I was them I'd want the MSI envelope done by coming into force day for the new city charters.

There will be more than enough money, especially when the fed portion is over 20 years, so why hurt yourself by not amortizing the prov/city portion.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

I hope you are right, but I personally don't expect the provincial government to open up their wallets anytime soon.

Yeah, these notoriously skinflint tightwad NDP governments, with their well-known twin hatreds for government spending and public transportation.

[Chadillaccc]

I wonder if the latest transit major backups due to the deaths on the system will push public opinion towards funding more underground infrastructure for this line and the future 8th Avenue Subway. Really nervous about the final decision of the downtown alignment, regardless.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I wonder if the latest transit major backups due to the deaths on the system will push public opinion towards funding more underground infrastructure for this line and the future 8th Avenue Subway. Really nervous about the final decision of the downtown alignment, regardless.

Short answer is 'no'. Not if it involves spending more money (ie taxes).

[Spring2008]

I'm interested in seeing an elevated skytrain design through a part of the core. Could have some pretty unique views.

[Chadillaccc]

Did the city decide on that option?

[milomilo]

They haven't decided on any option yet, and the elevated option was only a last minute addition, likely just to say they considered it. I'm pretty confident they'll go underground in the core, but you never know. Surface would be next most likely and elevated least, IMO.

[Chadillaccc]

Fingers crossed for underground and the cancellation of 9 Avenue North Station.

[O-tacular]

Did I just hear correctly on the radio that the province won't be funding the Green line before 2020?

[MalcolmTucker]

Not really sure where the whole end of MSI thing ended up, but there is a bunch of allocated money within their plan with no formal mechanism as of yet to allocate it.

So basically: there is no promised money, but that doesn't mean there is no money. And the province likely doesn't want to put it towards MSI because Calgary and Edmonton would just pay off MSI debt when the province's goal is stimulus.

[Wooster]

If the province doesn't find a way to pony up for Green Line given that there is $1.53 billion on the table from the feds, and the City can (and very likely will) lock in its 1/3 through tax room, the NDP might as well pack up shop, they'll have zero chance of electoral success next time.

It'll happen one way or another probably by spring. I suspect it'll be a long term allocation to debt finance the project.