Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[WBC]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yes, that was exactly my point - I guess you missed the sarcasm in my post. We've already had the "poll" you're suggesting, and the electorate has spoken.

You are equating the vote for a particular party to a vote for a particular issue. I think our country/province/city would look nothing like it does now if you let the public vote on all important issues. See Translink referendum. See HST referendum.

You seriously think that majority of Vancouverites would vote to remove viaduct so that they can put some condos down there? What's the benefit to an average Joe in that?

In fact, if you put up for a vote any of the big ticket items that CoV promotes like eco-density, up-zoning, road-diet, cycling, etc that have been promoted either by Vision or NPA I think they would go up in flames as they do little for an average citizen that presently lives in the city. Us urbanist nerds may like 600 foot towers being added to our skyline, but you guys are delusional if you think that that kind of stuff is popular among average population. And it is even less popular outside of Vancouver proper.

[Express691]

Sorry for the abrupt post, but This just came up on VancityBuzz and is spreading over Twitter, FB, ETC.

City Council votes in Unanimous decision 5-4 to tear down the viaducts.

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/10/vancouver-viaducts-demolition-approved/

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WBC

You are equating the vote for a particular party to a vote for a particular issue. I think our country/province/city would look nothing like it does now if you let the public vote on all important issues. See Translink referendum.

The Translink referendum is, IMHO, an excellent example of exactly why we shouldn't have votes on each and every issue.

[SFUVancouver]

CBC is reporting a 5-4 decision in favour of removing the Viaducts.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-viaducts-vote-remove-1.3291781

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Express691

Sorry for the abrupt post, but This just came up on VancityBuzz and is spreading over Twitter, FB, ETC.

City Council votes in Unanimous decision 5-4 to tear down the viaducts.

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/10/vancouver-viaducts-demolition-approved/

Unanimous means everyone voted for. 5-4 is not a unanimous decision. It is however a decision, closer than I thought it would be, but on the side I figured would happen.

I dunno, I don't frequent downtown that often but I remember 10 years ago it was insanity and a few times getting stuck spending 1 hour just trying to go 3 blocks around St. Pauls. Today I actually find traffic fine with the exception of a few bad spots so the fact stats seem to show a reduction in car traffic and congestion to me at least in my own experience seems to hold true.

We have to remember that downtown Vancouver used to be _THE_ destination to go to for everyone. Now with the region spreading out and new centers forming in the many suburbs, less people in the suburbs where MOST people in metro-Vancouver live, have to go anywhere near downtown.

You've also had a migration of a lot of car-based jobs and a refocus on transit oriented development and people that gravitate to that way of life. So I still don't think this will be as insane as some think.

I dunno I still have the opinion that through all of Vancouver the biggest cause of traffic is a general lack of left turn lanes and just the huge number of pedestrians running across red lights or red flashing hands. Maybe Vancouver needs to seriously consider some scramble intersections and/or banning left turns 24/7 on some of the major roads.

Also parking on main roads. 🞵🞵🞵 is that. That causes a lot of traffic too. The viaducts are so short I don't think they reduce traffic as much as people think.

looks like they are coming down either way. Going to definitely make things interesting in that area.

A side note though I like how Vancouver Council can say they have _NO_ money to increase the amount of garbage cans downtown and in Vancouver to reduce the trash on the streets, yet they can pull out $200 million for this. Makes you wonder.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yes, that was exactly my point - I guess you missed the sarcasm in my post. We've already had the "poll" you're suggesting, and the electorate has spoken.

I was NOT missing the sarcasm. I just do not think that an election should hinge around one issue. In an election, there are numerous issues to be addressed.
So I suggested a plebiscite; but it's too late now. The viaducts are going, and we just have to let the marvellous city engineers work their magic. (Hoo mamma mia)

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Unanimous means everyone voted for. 5-4 is not a unanimous decision. It is however a decision, closer than I thought it would be, but on the side I figured would happen.

The vote was opposed by the NPA (3 seats) and Green. I followed some commentary on twitter. Adrianne Carr wanted some ridiculous amendments and was upset when told they were virtually impossible. She really came off like a nut IMO. Votes for were 5 because 2 Vision councilors were missing (they have 7 seats total). De Genova came off like an idiot too.

Originally Posted by jhausner

Also parking on main roads. 🞵🞵🞵 is that. That causes a lot of traffic too. The viaducts are so short I don't think they reduce traffic as much as people think.

A side note though I like how Vancouver Council can say they have _NO_ money to increase the amount of garbage cans downtown and in Vancouver to reduce the trash on the streets, yet they can pull out $200 million for this. Makes you wonder.

I can't stand street parking either. Such a waste of valuable space.

As for garbage, I'm sure it's all about the operational expense of emptying them. I wonder how the big belly solar compactors are doing. If they only need to be emptied 1/3 or 1/4 of the time that would be worth it.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I truly cannot see elected officials of any point on the political spectrum being swayed by an unscientific poll on VanCityBuzz. Really?

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yes, by all means let's govern based on Vancitybuzz polls and internet comments.

Like it or not, at this point, social media is the closest way one can actually get to gauge the sentiments of the people, short of having an actual referendum. City officials not paying attention are nothing but fools.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Nope they'll probably take whatever is easiest, could be any route really. The newly proposed Georgia would be just the same amount of time.

Downtown/West End emergencies will probably go to VGH.

Nope, I disagree that the newly proposed Georgia will perform as well. In fact, I see it clogging up, unlike Georgia viaduct, which is practically jam-free.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The vote was opposed by the NPA (3 seats) and Green. I followed some commentary on twitter. Adrianne Carr wanted some ridiculous amendments and was upset when told they were virtually impossible. She really came off like a nut IMO. Votes for were 5 because 2 Vision councilors were missing (they have 7 seats total). De Genova came off like an idiot too.

Yup, sounds like you view those who are against the ideals of you or Vision as either whiners, haters, nuts or idiots. Have you ever wondered why those 2 Vision Council members went "missing"? 5-4 vote is hardly unanimous.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

As for garbage, I'm sure it's all about the operational expense of emptying them. I wonder how the big belly solar compactors are doing. If they only need to be emptied 1/3 or 1/4 of the time that would be worth it.

Yup, Vision would rather let the whole downtown stink, especially in the summer, than putting more money into garbage cans and collection. Then they suddenly have 200mil++ to mess with our city infrastructure, and are even spending more money on useless "art" installations. So much for priority.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Like it or not, at this point, social media is the closest way one can actually get to gauge the sentiments of the people, short of having an actual referendum. City officials not paying attention are nothing but fools.

We had the ultimate referendum last November, it's called a civic election.

Likes on facebook aren't votes.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Yup, sounds like you view those who are against the ideals of you or Vision as either whiners, haters, nuts or idiots. Have you ever wondered why those 2 Vision Council members went "missing"? 5-4 vote is hardly unanimous.

Yup, Vision would rather let the whole downtown stink, especially in the summer, than putting more money into garbage cans and collection. Then they suddenly have 200mil++ to mess with our city infrastructure, and are even spending more money on useless "art" installations. So much for priority.

Why they went missing? Because they already had a majority no matter how Green voted? No, no, the more logical reasoning in your head is a giant conspiracy. Time to tighten that tinfoil hat a little more.

As for downtown stinking, it hasn't had much smell since the great garbage strike of the Sullivan-NPA area. I agree some areas need more garbage bins, but the coverage has increased in the last few years.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by s211

Let's just say that Vision has Blind Vision when it comes to anything that does not align with their core social engineering principles.

Sad but true.
Social Engineering at its finest

[Genauso]

Was the skytrain line between Stadium and Main St discussed?

I only ask because I saw an watercolor artistic rendering where there was no skytrain

[Vin]

A comment in Vancitybuzz by Kathryn Friesen :

"Great Vancouver, all of us trades are facing less & less pathways into the city as we all have to live outside. We need our trucks to haul stuff into and out of the city to service the people in those towers. It is the most frustrating part of our job sitting and waiting in traffic. The viaduct is one of those vital and preferred routes to get into downtown. So great to service cyclists but we cannot haul gardening materials, construction equipment etc on the back of a bicycle. I do not see any alternate routes being offered for traffic so that better be figured out before any tearing down occurs. If you make it so time consuming and ridiculous to get into the city, then the trades will stick to the outer suburbs and you are on your own Vancouver. As well, in limiting routes into Vancouver, you are also limiting routes out of Vancouver. Good luck getting out in an earthquake. So clean your own houses & hotels, serve in your own restaurants, do your own landscaping/gardening, do your own renovations and construction etc. Oops, there is no one there to haul stuff in their little Evo cars and bicycles..."

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

As for downtown stinking, it hasn't had much smell since the great garbage strike of the Sullivan-NPA area. I agree some areas need more garbage bins, but the coverage has increased in the last few years.

Coverage hasn't kept up with the increase of the number of residents and tourists, obviously, and Vision Councillors have definitely not kept up with the times.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

[snip]

De Genova came off like an idiot too.

[snip]

Melissa De Genova is an idiot. I took a poli-sci class with her once at SFU and let's just say that I vividly remember her 10+ years later.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by Vin

A comment in Vancitybuzz by Kathryn Friesen :

"Great Vancouver, all of us trades are facing less & less pathways into the city as we all have to live outside. We need our trucks to haul stuff into and out of the city to service the people in those towers. It is the most frustrating part of our job sitting and waiting in traffic. The viaduct is one of those vital and preferred routes to get into downtown. So great to service cyclists but we cannot haul gardening materials, construction equipment etc on the back of a bicycle. I do not see any alternate routes being offered for traffic so that better be figured out before any tearing down occurs. If you make it so time consuming and ridiculous to get into the city, then the trades will stick to the outer suburbs and you are on your own Vancouver. As well, in limiting routes into Vancouver, you are also limiting routes out of Vancouver. Good luck getting out in an earthquake. So clean your own houses & hotels, serve in your own restaurants, do your own landscaping/gardening, do your own renovations and construction etc. Oops, there is no one there to haul stuff in their little Evo cars and bicycles..."

Hah what a ridiculous comment. She obviously is oblivious to the fact that the elevated roadway will be replaced with at an-grade roadway. Also, the viaducts will fall during an earthquake and would limit access to the core, rather than help it!

[s211]

Originally Posted by Vin

Coverage hasn't kept up with the increase of the number of residents and tourists, obviously, and Vision Councillors have definitely not kept up with the times.

Without knowing anything to the contrary, I'm sometimes resigned to the thought that Vision doesn't want to disturb the hipster cred of a gritty (i.e. filthy) urban environment.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

We had the ultimate referendum last November, it's called a civic election.

Likes on facebook aren't votes.

Did Vision ever roll out their platform before the civic elections that the City be on the hook for $200mil by removing the viaducts? I do remember they said $70mil, and everything was "hush-hush". That is called misleading. People don't vote them in because they support taking down the viaducts, but because of a host of other reasons. How do I know that? Of the 11,700 or so people who voted at Vancitybuzz, 62% say no, and only 28% yes. I've seen acclaimed polls where the poll sample number isn't even 5,000, and we have almost 12,000 here, and I call that significant.

And for someone like you who love to throw out hyperboles, these are not just "likes" on FB.