ATLANTA | Development Thread V - Page 800

NickH · #**15981** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 1:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

100% agree....Especially when it comes from the the Conservative party that trumpets less government and believe the Liberals are the ones creating regulations that are killing job growth. F'en hypocrites!

Leave your politics for another forum because it just makes you look stupid. As a conservative I'm happy to have a casino in Atlanta. The following post was right. Gambling is truly a tax on those who can't do math.

RocketSurgeon · #**15982** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 1:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLmangum

Tech has already agreed to be the lead tenant and will occupy half the office space.

Yes, but the building is 1 million square feet. That other half is a lot of space to fill.

Atlanta3000 · #**15983** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 2:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

They're smart. Midtown has one of the highest vacancy rates in the metro, particularly with Class A spaces (only Downtown and Norcorss/Duluth are worse). Aside from corporate headquarters and boutique incubator-type spaces I'd be surprised to see any new offices in Midtown for at least a few years. In fact, this may be wishful thinking since I find the design so hideous, but I wonder if that Portman computing center for Tech will end up smaller than planned. I know at one point they were even talking about an on-campus alternative. This doesn't seem like a good time to throw half a million square feet of "build it and they will come" office space on the market.

RocketSurgeon the numbers tell a different story. Since the low of the commercial real estate market in 2008, Midtown has added 3,497,339 SQFT of office space. Vacancy rate in Midtown has declined from 21.2% at the end of 2008 to 16.8% Q3,2015. Average rental rates (for Class A, B C) went from $23.00 SQFT in Q4,2008 to $26.60 SQFT in Q3,2015.

Bottom Line: expect to see at least 3+ Million SQFT of office space in development over the next 3-5 years.

Q4,2008
http://www.us.jll.com/united-states/en-us/Research/Atlanta-Office-Report-Q4-2009-JLL.pdf

Q3,2015
http://www.transwestern.net/Market-Resea...a%20Office%20Outlook%20-%20Q3%202015.pdf

Atlanta3000 · #**15984** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 2:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

Yes, but the building is 1 million square feet. That other half is a lot of space to fill.

A German engineering software company, RIB, has signed on to move their North American HQ to this project and take 100,000 SQFT. It is also rumored Samsung could take the remainder.
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/...software-to-relocate-north-american.html

RocketSurgeon · #**15985** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 3:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Since the low of the commercial real estate market in 2008, Midtown has added 3,497,339 SQFT of office space.

What? No way, man... stop and think about that for a minute... I'm not even sure the entire metro has added that much space since then. Either you're looking at the wrong numbers or a few supertalls have popped up without me noticing

Edit: By the way, I only said it has one of the highest vacancy rates in the metro... never mentioned anything about YOY performance.

Atlanta3000 · #**15986** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 3:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

What? No way, man... stop and think about that for a minute... I'm not even sure the entire metro has added that much space since then. Either you're looking at the wrong numbers or a few supertalls have popped up without me noticing

PCM, Atlantic Station Office buildings, 12th and Midtown, Proton facility - those are the large ones I know about. Several industrial properties have converted as well.

It was mentioned in TransWestern's Q3,2015 report (link above) Atlanta's overall commercial vacancy rate is the lowest in 16 years. Never in our city's history has there been this much absorption of office space without developers starting speculative buildings. Take the office buildings in Atlantic Station. They comprise almost 1.5 million sqft and in late 2012 had almost a 27% vacancy rate and it is now down to about 5%. Facts don't lie.

Circle of truth here: I have had a few drinks this evening (actually more than a few, but that is neither here nor there). With that said, I still believe I encapsulated the data points and analyzed the reports correctly.

Atlanta3000 · #**15987** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 4:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

What? No way, man... stop and think about that for a minute... I'm not even sure the entire metro has added that much space since then. Either you're looking at the wrong numbers or a few supertalls have popped up without me noticing

Edit: By the way, I only said it has one of the highest vacancy rates in the metro... never mentioned anything about YOY performance.

My comparison was from Q4, 2009 to Q3, 2015.

I believe your biggest misstatement was future office development in Midtown is several years out. I respectfully disagree for several reasons:
1. Money is cheap right now for developers.
2. Atlanta had the highest percent increase in employment last year
3. Vacancy rates will keep falling at brisk pace until new pipeline reaches the market.
4. Rental rate increases are almost the highest in the country.
5. Demographic/socioeconomic/transportation are causing companies to relocate to central business districts.

Net, net: Midtown Atlanta is in a very admirable position!

Atlanta3000 · #**15988** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 6:12 AM**

This should break ground before the end of the year - Hines T3 Atlantic Station

200,000 SQFT

shivtim · #**15989** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 12:30 PM**

Big news near Georgia Tech. There's a rezoning request to change the vacant parcel at 556 Centennial Olympic Park Drive (the lot directly south of Bobby Dodd Stadium, on North Ave) from RG-3 (General multi-family residential, maximum floor area ratio of 0.696) to MR-5A (Multi-family residential, maximum floor area ratio of 3.2). The landuse designation would be amended from "Medium Density Residential" to "Very High Density Residential." The proposal is for construction of 720 apartment units in 3 buildings ranging from three to fourteen stories. 400 studios, 220 1br and 100 2br... so catering to students.

Building A: 87,800sqft. 6 stories. 80' tall. 172 studio apts.
Building B: 116,200sqft. 7 stories. 90' tall. 228 studio apts.
Building C: 236,000sqft. 14 stories. 149' tall. 320 1br apts, 100 2br apts.

615 parking spaces would be in "decks below the buildings." A public street would go through the site. The adjacent streets would be improved to provide more pedestrian orientation, compatible with GA Tech's plan and the Centennial Redevelopment plan.

The zoning request is from the Integral Group (Eviva, Centennial Place, GM Doraville development, Capitol Gateway).

shivtim · #**15990** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 12:44 PM**

And some more activity next to O4W park - at 507 Wilmer St NE, there's a rezoning request for MR-4A (Multi-family residential, maximum floor area ratio of 1.49) to build five 3-story townhomes with rooftop terraces and a shared driveway. Right now it's a small fenced-off lot; I'm not sure if the adjacent 3-story office building would be included, but I don't think so.

arctk2014 · #**15991** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 1:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

Yes, but the building is 1 million square feet. That other half is a lot of space to fill.

Did you forget the infrastructure for the "high performance computing" part?

shivtim · #**15992** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 1:14 PM**

Finally, some news from the heart of downtown. Proposal to demolish an existing 2-story building at 40 Forsyth st SE in Fairlie Poplar and construct a 4-story mixed use building. Designed by CNNA architects. The first 2 stories would be retail/commercial, the 3rd and 4th story would be utility use to support expanded operations in the 55 Marietta st building. The basement of the new building would be used by Georgia Power, and would also contain a rain water collection system.
Total size would be 33,000 sqft.

However, the current site is an interesting art deco building (the Forsyth-Walton building) originally built in 1900. When the Federal Court tried to knock it down for expansion back in the mid-2000s, the city’s historic commission convinced them not to.

MdtwnATL · #**15993** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 1:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

PCM, Atlantic Station Office buildings, 12th and Midtown, Proton facility - those are the large ones I know about. Several industrial properties have converted as well.

It was mentioned in TransWestern's Q3,2015 report (link above) Atlanta's overall commercial vacancy rate is the lowest in 16 years. Never in our city's history has there been this much absorption of office space without developers starting speculative buildings. Take the office buildings in Atlantic Station. They comprise almost 1.5 million sqft and in late 2012 had almost a 27% vacancy rate and it is now down to about 5%. Facts don't lie.

Circle of truth here: I have had a few drinks this evening (actually more than a few, but that is neither here nor there). With that said, I still believe I encapsulated the data points and analyzed the reports correctly.

Also, watch out for the next phase of 12th & Midtown (12th and Peachtree). I've heard this will be a game changer.

arctk2014 · #**15994** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 1:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivtim

Finally, some news from the heart of downtown. Proposal to demolish an existing 2-story building at 40 Forsyth st SE in Fairlie Poplar and construct a 4-story mixed use building. Designed by CNNA architects. The first 2 stories would be retail/commercial, the 3rd and 4th story would be utility use to support expanded operations in the 55 Marietta st building. The basement of the new building would be used by Georgia Power, and would also contain a rain water collection system.
Total size would be 33,000 sqft.

However, the current site is an interesting art deco building (the Forsyth-Walton building) originally built in 1900. When the Federal Court tried to knock it down for expansion back in the mid-2000s, the city’s historic commission convinced them not to.

I'm not convinced this is a good thing until the materials are called out on more developed elevations. If there's any stucco/EIFS trying to emulate the details in a "replacement" development it's a poor choice of design - particularly in the heart of Fairlie-Poplar.

testarossa50 · #**15995** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 2:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivtim

However, the current site is an interesting art deco building (the Forsyth-Walton building) originally built in 1900. When the Federal Court tried to knock it down for expansion back in the mid-2000s, the city’s historic commission convinced them not to.

That was my immediate concern--"aren't most of the lots in that area covered with historic structures?"

Here's the building in question:

I'll leave it up to others to comment on the value of this building compared with the proposed 4-floor replacement that might address the street a bit better. imo the coolest part of the building is that metal sign on the front (not super apparent in this picture).

forj · #**15996** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 2:11 PM**

If i was on that commission I would convince them not to knock down the current building as well.. Atlanta has done a pretty crappy job preserving it's historic architecture.. would be a shame to lose this building.. if they want to expand it, maybe they could renovate it and add two floors on top in keeping with the current architecture

here is an ATL Urbanist blog post about it, referencing the last time they tried to tear it down:
http://atlurbanist.tumblr.com/post/1300453712/forsyth-walton-building

here is a good image of it

shivtim · #**15997** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 2:16 PM**

Lots of news on all fronts. Looks like a major development on the westside is moving forward. "The Quarter Upper West Side" just filed a permit for construction of 6 mixed use buildings. This is at 2108 Bolton Dr NW.

Also an application for a "new commercial building with office and retail" at 1529 Piedmont Ave NE. This is currently the Clear Creek Center just north of Piedmont Park, near where Piedmont and Monroe come together. It's within the Beltline overlay. Anybody know what this is?

And another development next to the Beltline Eastside trail. Application from Oak Street Development for 4 new houses at 680 Drewry St. I'm assuming these are townhouses, but there's no other info on the application.

On the westside, construction application filed for an 8 story, 406 unit apartment building with 16,000sqft retail. This is the Allen Morris project, at 11th street just north of Miller Union.

Martinman · #**15998** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 2:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

Yes, but the building is 1 million square feet. That other half is a lot of space to fill.

The total project (all uses ) is 1 million SF. The office space will be a little over 500,000 SF, of which 350,000 SF is already accounted for.

Martinman · #**15999** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 2:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by arctk2014

I'm not convinced this is a good thing until the materials are called out on more developed elevations. If there's any stucco/EIFS trying to emulate the details in a "replacement" development it's a poor choice of design - particularly in the heart of Fairlie-Poplar.

This came up when that hotel was proposed in Fairlie-Poplar a few years ago. I am almost certain that the materials allowed are specified in the code for the neighborhood - meaning no EIFS.

testarossa50 · #**16000** Posted **Oct 23, 2015, 2:56 PM**

Great updates shivtim.

Wow, the Westside is going to be an absolute traffic nightmare in a couple years. It's already horrible and there's plenty of stuff being built that hasn't been completed. Now, more proposals on top of that.

The eastside at least has the infrastructure to deal with this to some degree (better roads, better MARTA service, bike trails, way fewer railroad tracks creating bottlenecks, shopping and amenities dispersed throughout the area reducing the length of trips, etc).