Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

Justin's mother is from North Van so maybe,....just maybe he might take a proactive interest in Vancouver's mass transit issues. By-the-way,...did the Liberals pick up any seats in the Vancouver metro area?

Justin Trudeau is no stranger to Vancouver. Not only did he get a degree from UBC, he taught at two Vancouver schools.

I think he knows Vancouver reasonably well.

[Klazu]

Yeah, they communicated it unclearly but it is said to be 20 billion more than the investments today (how much investment is there on federal level, anyone know? ), so the total cake is bigger than just that 20 billion. Good news no matter what the number is.

I would hope Broadway has a regional priority over Surrey LRT, so at least we would see this money benefitting this project specifically.

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

I agree this is good news for transit. Interestingly the Fraser highway corridor have liberal MPs and I see a lot of stars-in-place for skytrain down Fraser Highway. Langley City is held now by Liberal MP John Aldag. Ken Hardie, the former spokesman for translink, is the (surprise) MP of Fleetwood.

My 2 cents - somehow, an evergreen-line like 11th hour announcement to some sort of property tax increase to put up translink's share to start getting what federal (and provincial) infrastructure money there is. And ongoing strong motivation to have surrey's plan, going thru liberal constituencies, start sooner than vancouver's...

Dear Mezzanine

Did you write a "Skytrain" to Langley???? I thought it was to be light rail.

It is a great idea, at least to Fleetwood, with perhaps light rail to Langley to pick up some feeder traffic. The volume on the system would double at Fleetwood, on the way in from Langley. Why not extend the "heavy metal" to Fleetwood and have light rail make two stops, once at 176th (picks up cloverdale) and once at Langley.

[mezzanine]

IIRC, the technology hasn't been decided yet, but TL's studies would suggest that the plan with skytrain down Fraser highway would be the fastest and attract the highest ridership.


@Klazu, I suppose there are compelling reasons for either surrey or vancouver to go first. that being said, Ken Hardie just retired from translink in 2012, so his contacts and background knowledge within TL and the mayors council shouldn't be small. Ken Hardie also defeated Nina Grewal, who was a ~ 10 year incumbant, and that also should carry some heft.

The Surrey LRT plan has a strong push from Linda Hepner and city hall, but a lot of them are in Diane Watts' camp. Dianne Watts also pushed for LRT while she was in city hall and now she's a Tory in south surrey. IMO the federal liberals would be cool to LRT, especially if there are unknowns to LRT operation in metro vancouver and if we are all used to skytrain.


But what do i know? i thought the TL referendum would pass!

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by jlousa

It's not out of the question... but if that ratio changes we can expect to see higher federal taxes and the consequences of it. The current system has worked quite well, we just need to get the local side of things in order and I don't see that happening as the mayors don't want to raise property taxes. Don't think it's absurd to think local taxes should pay for things that benefit locals.

Large disagree. The current system has worked about as well as mandatory sidewalk shoveling for homeowners. "Locals" just clear space for their car to get through and leave people walking or using scooters/wheelchairs in the lurch. Even the faithful and considerate homeowners mjss a day of shovelling, and their work is totally undone by the 50% who don't shovel at all. No, public transit is something the whole country needs to invest in and raise taxes for if necessary. It's essential to our well being and can't be supplied in a here and there manner.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Ridgerunner

Justin Trudeau is no stranger to Vancouver. Not only did he get a degree from UBC, he taught at two Vancouver schools.

I think he knows Vancouver reasonably well.

That being the case, would he be any more receptive to include the Broadway-UBC skytrain as part of the national infrastructure program he stated? Hope so.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

Large disagree. The current system has worked about as well as mandatory sidewalk shoveling for homeowners. "Locals" just clear space for their car to get through and leave people walking or using scooters/wheelchairs in the lurch. Even the faithful and considerate homeowners mjss a day of shovelling, and their work is totally undone by the 50% who don't shovel at all. No, public transit is something the whole country needs to invest in and raise taxes for if necessary. It's essential to our well being and can't be supplied in a here and there manner.

Wow that's an incredibly accurate analogy... good point.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by finalcoolman

Were you on crack as you were writing this?

Indeed, we found the one person who misses Stephen Harper!

The Liberals have always been more interested in infrastructure for cities, after all their voter base is urban. Given that Trudeau has committed to a big infrastructure campaign, I'd say BC is well set up to benefit on expanded transit projects.

[jlousa]

Keeping with your analogy you are suggesting since your neighbour doesn't shovel his snow and some days you don't shove it either, we should just pay someone else to shovel it for us. This is where we will have to agree to disagree, I don't want think others should be forced to pay because someone doesn't want to carry their own weight. We need to own up to the issue instead of pushing it upstream.
While money is never enough, lets not forget that the pervious federal governement transfered considerably more money down to the local level then any governement before them. The Gas Tax Fund being just one example.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Keeping with your analogy you are suggesting since your neighbour doesn't shovel his snow and some days you don't shove it either, we should just pay someone else to shovel it for us. This is where we will have to agree to disagree, I don't want think others should be forced to pay because someone doesn't want to carry their own weight. We need to own up to the issue instead of pushing it upstream.
While money is never enough, lets not forget that the pervious federal governement transfered considerably more money down to the local level then any governement before them. The Gas Tax Fund being just one example.

Everyone pays taxes for those roads that you ride on. But there are some roads you do not ride on, which you still pay taxes on.

Maybe all roads should be a pay per use? Same idea.

[AMTDGT]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Keeping with your analogy you are suggesting since your neighbour doesn't shovel his snow and some days you don't shove it either, we should just pay someone else to shovel it for us. This is where we will have to agree to disagree, I don't want think others should be forced to pay because someone doesn't want to carry their own weight. We need to own up to the issue instead of pushing it upstream.
While money is never enough, lets not forget that the pervious federal governement transfered considerably more money down to the local level then any governement before them. The Gas Tax Fund being just one example.

There is a new funding source maybe. In about 2 years there will be a marijuana tax which will raise millions (based on the american experience so far). It could be transferred to cities for transit funding.

[Hot Rod]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Yah correction to a few posters here, it is $20 billion over 10 years to the entire country. That is $2 billion per year spread across Canada. That doesn't mean they won't fund what has been stated LRT in Surrey (SkyTrain is LRT we can still hope right?), Broadway, and extended SeaBus service as 1/3rd of each of those is probably $1-1.5 billion which over the next decade is possible.

But again $20 billion is the whole country. NOT just BC.

People don't seem to realize the Liberal.ca web site shows you promises for your area only. So if you click on transit it shows Surrey, Broadway, and SeaBus. If you are in Toronto it doesn't....

Jhausner, I'm not sure if you're correct. Im in Seattle but still see the BC transit options.

[KPELLY]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Yeah, they communicated it unclearly but it is said to be 20 billion more than the investments today (how much investment is there on federal level, anyone know? ), so the total cake is bigger than just that 20 billion. Good news no matter what the number is.

I would hope Broadway has a regional priority over Surrey LRT, so at least we would see this money benefitting this project specifically.

So basically if they original amount the Conservatives promised was x, and with an additional 20 B, the total is now 4x for the Liberals.

or

y + 20 = 4x

Then if the conservatives promised $10 Billion over ten years the original investment for the Liberals would be $20 Billion, and the total would now be $40 Billion over 10 years.

or similariy,

x=6, y=4, t=24
x=7, y=8, t=28
x=8, y=12, t=32
x=9, y=16, t=36
x=11, y=24, t=44
x=12, y=28, t=48

I think the Conservatives promised $1 B/year or something I seem to remember which would make the total for the Liberals $4 B/year. Anyone know for sure?

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

There is a new funding source maybe. In about 2 years there will be a marijuana tax which will raise millions (based on the american experience so far). It could be transferred to cities for transit funding.

Riding high, so to speak.

[Klazu]

NDP was talking about quadrubling the investment, so I think your numbers are quite close (Conservatives 1B/year and others around 4B/year).

[officedweller]

I think Queetz is harking back to the days in the 1990s when BC only had maybe one or so Liberal MPs under a Liberal government (Liberals under Chretien 1993-2003). Essentially, BC didn't ever get much from Ottawa.
With a much higher number of Liberal MPs from BC this time around, there are more BC constituents to appease.

Question: Was there any Federal contribution to the Millennium Line (1997-ish?) which was built pre-TransLink? I don't think so. I think the Province (NDP under Glen Clark) paid for 100% of the capital costs.

The 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 formula came about after TransLink was created - with the caveat that if locals (municipalities forming TransLink, pre-Falcon re-org) want control, then they have to pay their share (1/3).

[DKaz]

Yes, I believe there was no federal contribution into the Millennium Line. The NDP BC Government committed most if not all of the money into the project.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

There is a new funding source maybe. In about 2 years there will be a marijuana tax which will raise millions (based on the american experience so far). It could be transferred to cities for transit funding.

Keep dreaming. I completely expect cannabis to be treated like tobacco and the public having a general disdain for people who smoke anything.

The funding requirements are 1/3 1/3 1/3 because that's the requirements for a P3 partnership (1/3 federal, 1/3 provincial, 1/3 local) with the operational risk being borne by the private company.

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by Kisai

The funding requirements are 1/3 1/3 1/3 because that's the requirements for a P3 partnership (1/3 federal, 1/3 provincial, 1/3 local) with the operational risk being borne by the private company.

Yeah, but I see no reason that the Liberals have to follow the funding requirements set by the Conservatives for the P3 fund.

They could end the P3 fund for all it matters and do it however they want.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by jlousa

It's not out of the question... but if that ratio changes we can expect to see higher federal taxes and the consequences of it. The current system has worked quite well, we just need to get the local side of things in order and I don't see that happening as the mayors don't want to raise property taxes. Don't think it's absurd to think local taxes should pay for things that benefit locals.

It is withing federal purview to contribute as much as they want to any project they see fit. There are a lot of projects that might be of significant importance that they contributed more to.

While the 1/3 model works great to fund things that are of local importance (it basically puts all the decision making into local hands and turns the other levels of government into a bank), when something of significant importance that might bankrupt local bodies to build, the federal government can step in and make up any funding gaps.

Something like the UBC line is so important to the region (heck, it's important to Western Canada) but hard to fund regionally, it's important for the feds to step in (that's the reason we are a federation afterall).

Originally Posted by Ridgerunner

Justin Trudeau is no stranger to Vancouver. Not only did he get a degree from UBC, he taught at two Vancouver schools.

I think he knows Vancouver reasonably well.

I agree. I think that while he lives in Montreal, his heart is actually in BC. He spent far more time than he had to in BC to win the election. I think it meant a lot to him personally to get as many ridings in BC as possible.

He definitely has more BC in him than John A Macdonald (that's a Canadian history joke).