DENVER | Main Development Thread #6 - Page 301

TakeFive · #**6001** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 4:42 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chucolo

This probably falls in the useless information department, but Denver did have a Fairmont, which opened in 1980 I believe...It's now the Grand Hyatt at 1750 Welton Street.

I plum forgot about that. Hotels I didn't pay much attention to back then but it does ring a quiet bell now that you mention it. Given the Canadian influence at that time is makes sense too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottk

Didn't Ryan hint a few pages back that a hyatt was going in block 162? Something like the square root of 26,244????

RyanD's post clearly went over my head as I guessed he was alluding to a whole different kind of "Hilton" branding.

comoneymaker · #**6002** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 6:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakeFive

was created December 23, 1913

The Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City Denver Branch opened on January 14, 1918. They moved to their current location when the building was completed in 1968. According to Shawn Snow at DenverUrbanism the Tabor Grand Opera House was sadly sacrificed to create this very fortified building.

Interesting. We have any pics of what the old opera house looked like?

bunt_q · #**6003** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 7:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by comoneymaker

Interesting. We have any pics of what the old opera house looked like?

Jesus man, put down the bong and just google the thing. It's basically the most spectacular building Denver ever lost. Now, you wouldn't know that. But if you knew how to work the googles you'd have an inkling.

trubador · #**6004** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 1:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Could I sell you on a Fairmont Hotel? Or is Denver not ready for that or is that site not prominent enough?

Fairmont is more of a global brand although there are 20 in the states. Interestingly, the only one in Colorado is in Telluride. Of the 11 under construction only one is in the states. Austin is getting a 1,000+ room convention hotel which will be the 2nd in Texas to go with one in Dallas. Naturally, Scottsdale has the Fairmont Scottsdale Princess with 650 rooms/suites.

Welcome to the Posting side. Enjoy the roller coaster ride.

I see almost zero chance that a fairmont comes here. They are a small boutique brand that is focusing on international growth. In fact they just got rid of a property in Boston (Fairmont Battery Wharf). The only brand really missing from downtown that is a 4/5 start level is Intercontinental, omni, and Hilton and it would be really smart for Marriott to build a huge hotel closer to the convention center, they really have a huge business presence.

I would take a JW Marriott similar to the one in Austin right by the convention center.

CherryCreek · #**6005** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 1:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by comoneymaker

Interesting. We have any pics of what the old opera house looked like?

Ouch. Someone should have gone to jail for tearing this down:

..and replacing it with this:

RyanD · #**6006** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 3:00 PM**

Alright... Time to dig this one up again. It's been 2 years since I created this informative, yet very depressing photo thread.

Denver Urban Renewal Authority's Skyline Project Era

wong21fr · #**6007** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 3:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojiferous

Agreed. I would be glad to see the empty lot disappear, but this looks like it was designed by an accounting department.

The accounting department doesn't propose what's probably the largest cantilevered structure in Colorado to keep the Sage building intact- that's a design element that's rather striking in my opinion. I'm going with architectural group-think to blame for some of the blander design elements, along with having to make the site work for what appears to be a flagship hotel's large banquet facilities. Oh, plus the DCF model, the model rules all.

I really wonder why Block 162 couldn't get something like a City Target or Walmart to play ball with setting up shop there. Too many differing uses (large format retail, flagship hotel, office, etc) for the site? A reluctance to not have a ground floor retail presence? What was the rational?

bcp · #**6008** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 3:34 PM**

Not enough sustained residential density..so, it becomes very auto dependent...which means very expensive to build...in time it will happen, but need a lot more bodies living downtown - double or triple

wong21fr · #**6009** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 4:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcp

Not enough sustained residential density..so, it becomes very auto dependent...which means very expensive to build...in time it will happen, but need a lot more bodies living downtown - double or triple

Wonder how long that will take? You've got about 18K or so living downtown right now and enough units U/C to increase that number by about 50%. It might double by the end of this decade. Which means that Target should be looking at their new downtown store now- and the rumor mill has so far been silent after Block 162 fell through. Where's it going? Arapahoe Square? Block B at Union Station?

s.p.hansen · #**6010** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 4:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Jesus man, put down the bong and just google the thing. It's basically the most spectacular building Denver ever lost. Now, you wouldn't know that. But if you knew how to work the googles you'd have an inkling.

Wait, hang on, serious question here, but do people in Denver use bongs? Is vaping more of a San Francisco / Salt Lake City thing?

wong21fr · #**6011** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 5:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

Wait, hang on, serious question here, but do people in Denver use bongs? Is vaping more of a San Francisco / Salt Lake City thing?

Don't ask Bunt, if he even thinks about weed he goes into his old man mode about the those damn kids.

seventwenty · #**6012** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 6:47 PM**

When isn't bunt in old man mode though?

Denverite · #**6013** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 7:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

I am disappointed. After all these years of waiting...this is what we get? Look I knew the observation tower was probably some BS, but this is it??? Two boxy buildings!?!?! I mean I hate to be the bitchy commentator but shit I am very disappointed with this project!!!

What do you expect? Boxy is rubber-stamped here. (sarcasm). I really wish I knew why this happens here. Box, box, box. That's what we get. I assume a couple things - 1) that the developer is maximizing the developable footprint - most parcels are square or rectangular, and/or 2) for some reason, boxy (and often earth tones) are encouraged by zoning. Other than that, it makes no sense. It's really sucky.

In weed news...

"Marijuana industry drives Denver metro area's real estate recovery":

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/loc...-denver-metro-areas-real-estate-recovery

Start shooting those arrows my way.

TakeFive · #**6014** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 7:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanD

Alright... Time to dig this one up again. It's been 2 years since I created this informative, yet very depressing photo thread.

Denver Urban Renewal Authority's Skyline Project Era

I had never seen that thread; it's awesome. Great work.

I even watched seventwenty's Coors Field video and I like his skyline shot from the east; not for the skyline so much as seeing Stapleton in the foreground.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trubador

I see almost zero chance that a fairmont comes here. They are a small boutique brand that is focusing on international growth. In fact they just got rid of a property in Boston (Fairmont Battery Wharf). The only brand really missing from downtown that is a 4/5 start level is Intercontinental, omni, and Hilton and it would be really smart for Marriott to build a huge hotel closer to the convention center, they really have a huge business presence.

I would take a JW Marriott similar to the one in Austin right by the convention center.

Interestingly that Austin J.W. Marriott was developed by White Lodging. Guessing that they were an early "first responder" in Austin. I wouldn't doubt their missing the boat in Denver gave them their motivation. In hindsight, I'm sure they'd develop their Embassy Suites site much differently today but at that early date nobody knew the Colorado Convention Center would be soo successful. Denver hadn't been much of a convention destination prior to the expansion.

I "blame Obama," first for the 2008 Dem Convention and second for his sorta ill-advised comment about corporate convention parties in Vegas etc. Denver quickly became a solid "business" convention site. Other than in 2009, Denver's convention business took off like a rocket.

My only development fantasy rant was for a gem along California St. right across from the convention center that would go over the Bubba Gump Shrimp building for a 2nd large convention hotel similar to what Austin is getting with their new Fairmont Hotel which will have something like 25 more rooms than the J.W. and be connected to the convention center via a walkway bridge over the street. But White Lodging already owned the site at 15th and California and now that their dual-branded Hyatt is nearing completion they've broken ground for their new 20-story dual-branded Le Meridien/AC Hotel project.

That still leaves the rest of California across from the convention center, the parking lot and Bubba Gump's and Ken says that Bubba Gump is not an historical building (

). Other than an hotel what else would work at that site? A nice J.W. Marriott would be a nice addition to downtown, no doubt.

wong21fr · #**6015** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 7:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventwenty

When isn't bunt in old man mode though?

When he's wrestling bears in the Great North.

seventwenty · #**6016** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 8:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Especially when he's wrestling bears in the Great North.

Ftfy...kinda

mojiferous · #**6017** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 8:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

The accounting department doesn't propose what's probably the largest cantilevered structure in Colorado to keep the Sage building intact- that's a design element that's rather striking in my opinion. I'm going with architectural group-think to blame for some of the blander design elements, along with having to make the site work for what appears to be a flagship hotel's large banquet facilities.

I agree that the hotel and cantilevered base portions will probably be pretty good, especially from the mall. The hotel tower at least looks like it will have something happening at the top.

It's actually the 32-story block-long glass rectangle that's the most frustrating. It's absolutely reeks of cost engineering to me: every floor plate will be the same, the facade doesn't change, even the roof mechanical is hidden behind the same boring glass. There was all this talk about putting down something interesting on 162 and they can't even pencil out the cost of making the roof mechanical floor ornamental. When the Dominion Towers (the 80s octagonal buildings at 17th & Welton, literally a block away) are more visually interesting than your proposal, you should go back to the drawing board.

Note: I may also be cranky because my office looks over the Sage building and I'll have to look at this thing every day. Excited about the construction photo opportunities, less so about the final result.

Stonemans_rowJ · #**6018** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 9:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denverite

What do you expect? Boxy is rubber-stamped here. (sarcasm). I really wish I knew why this happens here. Box, box, box. That's what we get. I assume a couple things - 1) that the developer is maximizing the developable footprint - most parcels are square or rectangular, and/or 2) for some reason, boxy (and often earth tones) are encouraged by zoning. Other than that, it makes no sense. It's really sucky.

In weed news...

"Marijuana industry drives Denver metro area's real estate recovery":

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/loc...-denver-metro-areas-real-estate-recovery

Start shooting those arrows my way.

That doesn't speak to residential real estate though.

If the residential market cools, and Manning is clearly having a bad year, then maybe just maybe...

corey · #**6019** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 9:36 PM**

I'm just glad Block 162 is getting completely developed. It is a tremendous improvement over what was there for decades. I'm also thrilled that it looks like the Cottrell's building will be redeveloped. They should build the City Target on East Colfax, 17th Avenue, or maybe at 16th Ave and Lincoln. It doesn't have to be right downtown. The ones in Portland and SF aren't.

The Federal Reserve block is still the best lot for Denver's tallest building and a premier multi-use development. At least then the loss of the Tabor Grand would be more bearable. Hopefully someday.

CherryCreek · #**6020** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 9:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denverite

In weed news...

"Marijuana industry drives Denver metro area's real estate recovery":

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/loc...-denver-metro-areas-real-estate-recovery

Start shooting those arrows my way.

In this case, only the headline is wrong. The story doesn't claim that marijuana is the source of the real estate boom in Denver, only that marijuana production is the key factor driving up the cost of industrial real estate space. THAT is true, and nobody watching the local industrial space market would quibble.