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  #3701  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 1:07 AM
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^ This is with the major proposals only, some massing is a little of like the two buildings to the left of Trump are a little tall.



cred to JuanPaulo
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  #3702  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 1:32 AM
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What an epic skyline Chicago has. Only Trump is a huge letdown.
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  #3703  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 1:33 AM
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As a Torontonian who travels often to Chicago, I have to admit that TO's skyscapers are still well below Chicago in terms of quality and awesomeness.

You got this "wow" feeling when you're in Chicago. I suspect the city's layout and the distribution of supertalls in Chicago contribute to that feeling. TO has many tall buildings, but they're tightly clustered in a few spots. When you're on street level in Chicago, you can see the supertalls on your right, on your left, etc. Not to mention the quality of the buildings and different architectural styles in Chicago.

TO still has a long way to go for #2, but we're getting there
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  #3704  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 1:33 AM
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Need a ton more density. Don't need supertalls and quality in terms of individual towers doesn't matter.
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  #3705  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 1:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainvan View Post
As a Torontonian who travels often to Chicago, I have to admit that TO's skyscapers are still well below Chicago in terms of quality and awesomeness.

You got this "wow" feeling when you're in Chicago. I suspect the city's layout and the distribution of supertalls in Chicago contribute to that feeling. TO has many tall buildings, but they're mostly clustered in a few spots. When you're on street level in Chicago, you can see the supertalls on your right, on your left, etc. Not to mention the quality of the buildings and different architectural styles in Chicago.

TO still has a long way to go for #2, but we're getting there
Chicago has history. What they have accomplished over the past 20 years is no better than Toronto and, I would even say beneath Toronto. Has nothing to do with the respective bests too. It's all about the crap.
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  #3706  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 1:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainvan View Post
As a Torontonian who travels often to Chicago, I have to admit that TO's skyscapers are still well below Chicago in terms of quality and awesomeness.

You got this "wow" feeling when you're in Chicago. I suspect the city's layout and the distribution of supertalls in Chicago contribute to that feeling. TO has many tall buildings, but they're tightly clustered in a few spots. When you're on street level in Chicago, you can see the supertalls on your right, on your left, etc. Not to mention the quality of the buildings and different architectural styles in Chicago.

TO still has a long way to go for #2, but we're getting there
On foot is where Toronto really suffers. Montreal, Calgary, and Vancouver all feel a lot closer at street level than they should with the population difference. If you're in a vehicle (bus, cab, plane, car, etc.) Toronto destroys all comers in Canada (and being such an endless sea it's probably able to handle Chicago), but slowed down to walking and it loses that oomph. The clumps are too tight and too far apart (Ottawa has the exact same issue).
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  #3707  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 4:55 AM
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200 meters won't show much in Chicago! I think right now there are at least 3-4 proposals that are likely to go in the next 3-4 years well over 300 meters and a couple over 250 meters! TO's doing quite well on it's own.... both are "World Class" cities.... IMO!
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  #3708  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 6:12 AM
ainvan ainvan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TallBob View Post
200 meters won't show much in Chicago! I think right now there are at least 3-4 proposals that are likely to go in the next 3-4 years well over 300 meters and a couple over 250 meters! TO's doing quite well on it's own.... both are "World Class" cities.... IMO!
Toronto has 9 buildings above 250 m/820 ft under construction/proposed.


SSP

Chicago has 4 buildings above 250 m/820 ft under construction/proposed.


SSP

Toronto has a slight edge on quantity, but Chicago wins on quality
It would be interesting to see both skylines in 10 years.

Last edited by ainvan; Oct 15, 2015 at 7:54 AM.
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  #3709  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 6:34 AM
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Hoping to see movement on "The One" and 81 Bay soon.
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  #3710  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 7:02 AM
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Blecch, Chicago's Wanda Vista is absolutely ghastly! The other three are nice, especially 451 East Grand.
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  #3711  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 1:17 PM
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Yup it's disgusting.
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  #3712  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 2:45 PM
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Eew that Chicago building is gross.

I think even if Toronto catches up in numbers and height, Chicago will still win because of arcitecture and office towers. Office towers almost always look better than residential. They are thicker and more dramatic and have quality glass and now balconies. Just compare CGY/MTL with Vancouver and you'll see the difference. Chicago also a better arrangement of their towers, in that is more spread out. Once you leave our financial district it's a bit underwhelming until you get to Yorkville.
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  #3713  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 4:00 PM
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A ton of towers are needed to catch Chicago especially if it's accomplished through density over height. It is impossible to say where new peaks will be created and whether they will be office or continue as mid range residential towers. Some of these residential towers are massive too with floorplates in the range of thin office towers. In that regards, the Calgary to Vancouver comparison has little ground.
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  #3714  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedok View Post
On foot is where Toronto really suffers. Montreal, Calgary, and Vancouver all feel a lot closer at street level than they should with the population difference. If you're in a vehicle (bus, cab, plane, car, etc.) Toronto destroys all comers in Canada (and being such an endless sea it's probably able to handle Chicago), but slowed down to walking and it loses that oomph. The clumps are too tight and too far apart (Ottawa has the exact same issue).
What does this mean?
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  #3715  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by flipv View Post
What does this mean?
That when you're walking around downtown Toronto (outside of a couple of intersections) it doesn't feel that much more impressive than Montreal, Vancouver, or Calgary, but as soon as you hop in a car and start driving around suddenly the bulk of Toronto becomes very evident.
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  #3716  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 4:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipv View Post
What does this mean?
For me this was immediately apparent. Too much of downtown is what I would call "low intensity" in the sense that outside the financial district (and to a lesser extend Yorkville), the size, height, and quality of the buildings drops off drastically. And it isn't just an issue of skyscrapers, but of the low and midrise streetscape. In Chicago you don't have many 2-3 story buildings forming the streetwall right downtown the way you have on parts Yonge for instance. The small area of the Toronto financial district has such a high level of intensity but if you streetview say, Sydney, and go throughout downtown and try and find low intensity areas, you'll see the difference.

Not to say this is necessarily a bad thing. In Toronto it puts lots of office workers within close proximity to Union, and to one another so it's quite efficient. It just affects downtown's vibe for someone on the street. In the high intensity places there is so much density and height that it's tough for someone to properly appreciate it. Especially since there were so many impressive smaller buildings razed to make way for the skyscrapers of the financial district that could have been mixed in with the 'scrapers.
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  #3717  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 4:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedok View Post
That when you're walking around downtown Toronto (outside of a couple of intersections) it doesn't feel that much more impressive than Montreal, Vancouver, or Calgary, but as soon as you hop in a car and start driving around suddenly the bulk of Toronto becomes very evident.
There is basically a line of 20-40 storey towers from Lake Ontario to Yorkville. All this looks tiny in comparison to the 60-70 storey monsters in the Financial District.

Otherwise, from ground level, you see it. It's a never ending line of buildings. Montreal's towers feel small. I mean their tallest tower will be eclipsed by a building under construction in my neighbourhood (in Etobicoke). Stand at Bloor/Bay and look north, east, west and south. It's just density and buildings.
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  #3718  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 5:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
For me this was immediately apparent. Too much of downtown is what I would call "low intensity" in the sense that outside the financial district (and to a lesser extend Yorkville), the size, height, and quality of the buildings drops off drastically. And it isn't just an issue of skyscrapers, but of the low and midrise streetscape. In Chicago you don't have many 2-3 story buildings forming the streetwall right downtown the way you have on parts Yonge for instance. The small area of the Toronto financial district has such a high level of intensity but if you streetview say, Sydney, and go throughout downtown and try and find low intensity areas, you'll see the difference.

Not to say this is necessarily a bad thing. In Toronto it puts lots of office workers within close proximity to Union, and to one another so it's quite efficient. It just affects downtown's vibe for someone on the street. In the high intensity places there is so much density and height that it's tough for someone to properly appreciate it. Especially since there were so many impressive smaller buildings razed to make way for the skyscrapers of the financial district that could have been mixed in with the 'scrapers.
That's also part of it, the drop offs in Toronto are very sudden, and make decent sized buildings seem small and unimpressive because they're tiny compared to what's next to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipv View Post
There is basically a line of 20-40 storey towers from Lake Ontario to Yorkville. All this looks tiny in comparison to the 60-70 storey monsters in the Financial District.

Otherwise, from ground level, you see it. It's a never ending line of buildings. Montreal's towers feel small. I mean their tallest tower will be eclipsed by a building under construction in my neighbourhood (in Etobicoke). Stand at Bloor/Bay and look north, east, west and south. It's just density and buildings.
Montreal or Vancouver only feel smaller if you spend all your time staring up (Calgary still stands pretty darned good). Also only if you compare it to a few intersections. A lot of downtown Toronto is only in that 20-40 range, which is where lots of Montreal, Vancouver, or Calgary are. The other three also have an advantage of a more circular design, so when you come to an intersection all four directions are solid while Toronto tends to have 2 very solid and 2 less impressive ones due to a linear build. There's a few exceptions (Yonge and Bloor being one), but most of the time you don't get as lost in the downtown (though compared to Vancouver and Calgary it's easier to get yourself lost in the historic core, which in my opinion is a much better feature).

It's not a bad thing, it's just that Toronto is built to a different style, so if you want to get lost in urban canyons the next 3 biggest skylines don't fall far behind. If you love to explore neighbourhoods like I do then Toronto's only real competition is Montreal.
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  #3719  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 5:16 PM
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Have you guys been to the Entertainment District?

It's huge (in area), it's got massive old school streetwalls, and skyscrapers all over the place to boot. It's at least as big as the financial district.
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  #3720  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2015, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by caltrane74 View Post
Have you guys been to the Entertainment District?

It's huge (in area), it's got massive old school streetwalls, and skyscrapers all over the place to boot. It's at least as big as the financial district.
It's the usual of people forming opinions on Toronto's built form using their experience visiting over 10 years ago.

I don't recognize the city I grew up in. I remember when the Bloor-Danforth line was roomy in rush hour.
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