PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Minivan Werner]

Is Shell investing similar amounts in the other (5? 7?) sites that they were considering for the cracking plant? I can see them backing out of the cracking plant altogether but I was just wondering if it seems like they've at least settled on the Beaver site as being the intended location if they decide to go through with it.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Yeah, I think it is fair to say this falls into the category of preparing those sites for development. It will be interesting to see if it actually gets federal grants under those circumstances, or instead needs to wait for more infill first.

I would think at minimum the City would want to "square" off the corner of Station and Euclid again for whatever Mellon's Orchard development goes in.

Originally Posted by Wave

Don't forget that the Alphabet City development would take out about 1/3 or more of the buildings on the east side end of the Kirkland "alley" (and Penn). Since that development is still on the drawing boards, there would still be time for the developer to incorporate the plan to orient retail perhaps towards a new park. That would eliminate some of the Kirkwood issues.

I don't have high hopes for the Alphabet City project, which seems to be focused on office space (rather than retail/residential, which IMHO would be a much better fit for a space so close to the East Busway).

Originally Posted by Wave

Furthermore, it would be a windfall for the remaining property owners along Kirkland who would now have a dual retail exposure on both the Penn and Kirkland sides. That would either add value to their property or make those remaining properties more appealing to development in the future.

I think setting up for dual storefronts would be a bit problematic, because it would mean there is no "loading" zone for goods. If you set up a restaurant, for example, where will the kitchen go? Something like the 5900 block of Kirkwood should be feasible though.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I believe the area north of the church grounds along Penn is already a parklet, but you could make it into much more of a public plaza with this approach (and maybe some help from the church--I'm not sure where the property line is drawn). The triangular area at Whitfield and Baum also has a lot of potential if you can eliminate that cut-through.

The church actually owns all of that "parklet." Google Maps has this weird habit of labeling things parks and coloring them green which are not parks at all (in some cases they are just undeveloped land).

I think it would be pretty nice if you turned all of the streets in the area bounded by Penn, Baum, S Highland, and Euclid into woonerf-style shared spaces. Most of these streets are low-traffic right now, and by establishing them as dominantly pedestrian roads it could add a needed "intimate" element as the locks along S Beatty are redeveloped.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Staggering... that's like losing an Allegheny Center.

Speaking of which, I'll trade you 1 Allegheny Center for what used to be there + what used to be in East Liberty. Deal?

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

Is Shell investing similar amounts in the other (5? 7?) sites that they were considering for the cracking plant? I can see them backing out of the cracking plant altogether but I was just wondering if it seems like they've at least settled on the Beaver site as being the intended location if they decide to go through with it.

Yes. Definitely that site.

Here's what the site looked like a year ago or so before they tore down the massive zinc plant. http://binged.it/1RugOZz
Now scroll Northwest from that site along the river and see the other huge plants all in a row there. Next above it is a (smallish) oil plant or something then a Dow Chemical plant then a dam then a massive coal fired power plant with the three steam towers then a drywall factory then the nuclear power plant with the two cooling towers then across the river a working steel mill (ATI), one of only two still making steel in the Pittsburgh metro I think counting Braddock.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The church actually owns all of that "parklet."

Ah. I would hope that wouldn't be problem, if the public/foundations were willing to put up the money for a comprehensive redo.

I think it would be pretty nice if you turned all of the streets in the area bounded by Penn, Baum, S Highland, and Euclid into woonerf-style shared spaces. Most of these streets are low-traffic right now, and by establishing them as dominantly pedestrian roads it could add a needed "intimate" element as the locks along S Beatty are redeveloped.

Very cool idea! In fact, although I was thinking of it as a development location, that space between Mignonette, Tamello, and Beatty, which is really the only site completely enclosed by your proposed woonerf, would make a cool companion space to the "cathedral square" (maybe more of a green space and perhaps playground) with a nice path between the Ace Hotel and the library connecting the two:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/East+L...4ed9ad4d9f97b:0x9e8b0d32a3d8f951!6m1!1e1

In fact I don't know exactly where the Ace's restaurant is going, but that would be a great space for a European-style alley cafe.

The key though might be redeveloping the land occupied by the "Novum" building (5900 Penn) so it presented an attractive front to this possible park.

[PITairport]

There seems to be a bit of an interest in air service developments in this thread, so I'll mention that PIT-STL will be picked up by Southwest Airlines as expected in March.

It will be 1x daily on a 737, so this will make up for the lost seats on the 3x daily AA flights being cut, which used 50 seaters. I was hoping for 2x daily however, so as to allow better schedules for business travel. But I wouldn't rule that out in the future; STL has slowly but surely grown into a bit of a hub for Soutwest.

[PITairport]

duplicate post

[JVC]

not sure who comes up with these names but calling the stormwater mitigation garden in front of the church a town square is completely silly

then again the google map of the block is also inaccurate so the silly name shouldn't be surprising






if east liberty is ever going to regain some of its former glory as the 3rd busiest business district in the state
and continue to attract sophisticated residents from outside the area,
then the EDLI and the city have to start focusing less on restaurants, hotels and rentals and start focusing more on quality urban planning

they've already moved the virgil cantini fountain once from the corner of penn and highland to its current location
now they need to move it to the center of the new PENN SQUARE

[SkyPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by JVC

not sure who comes up with these names but calling the stormwater mitigation garden in front of the church a town square is completely silly

As a member of that church, I can inform you that the project is called a town square and has benches, seating areas, and other non-stormwater mitigation parts.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by SkyPittsburgh

As a member of that church, I can inform you that the project is called a town square and has benches, seating areas, and other non-stormwater mitigation parts.

Yeah, it isn't a bad space if you look at it in isolation, but the problem is with the way the street, bus shelter, and so on work, it gets lost in context:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4612711,...7WvYTcV__R7p_Rd9AHklA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Again, I think if you imagine that whole space right up to the buildings across Penn being converted into a Market Square-style plaza (and in fact I believe that space between the church steps and the facing buildings is over half the width of Market Square), you could have a very substantial public space, with plenty of room for events like farmer's markets, holiday markets, and so on.

Random comparison, but I was recently in Vienna and I think you could use Stephansplatz as inspiration, since that also takes the form of a large church in a relatively tight urban space:

Google map overhead:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Stepha...1!1s0x476d079f3e69c281:0x20563c156aa1fde

East Liberty overhead comparison--not quite the same scale, but close enough to get the idea:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4609369,-79.9254969,735a,20y,90h/data=!3m1!1e3

Photos indicating relatively tight confines:





Here is it set up with a holiday night market:

Spherical photo:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Stepha...1!1s0x476d079f3e69c281:0x20563c156aa1fde

Regular photo:



Edit:

OK, this should actually be to scale. Pretty similar, as it turns out:





Finally, Market Square, at the same scale:

[BrianTH]

Shocker--Continental/the sports teams may get yet another extension on building apartments for the North Shore:

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/transpo...c-study-North-Shore/stories/201510070245

It has been a complete disaster granting those development rights to sports teams, and it would be great if the public could somehow get the development rights for the Lower Hill back from the Penguins, because it is easy to imagine all this happening again.

[BrianTH]

RIDC has gotten a $5 million low-interest loan from the state to help finance the re-use of Mill 19 in the ALMONO/Hazelwood LTV site:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/pit...Wesco-International/stories/201510080055

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2015/10/08/5m-state-loan-helps-fund-redevelopment.html

That's the building we recently saw lit up as part of Thrival, and it is one of the last few industrial buildings remaining on the site:






Some re-use renderings:

[eschaton]

I found a copy of CMU's master plan in full on the City's website. Posting it for the perusal of everyone.

Overall there's no major surprises, but far more detail about their 10/25 year plan than detailed anywhere else I've seen.

[BrianTH]

CSX has begin construction on its intermodal terminal in McKees Rocks:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...ins-construction-on-intermodal-rail.html

This is part of their overall investment program related to the Panama Canal widening:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspecula...ama-canal-expansion-could-be-a-positive/

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Overall there's no major surprises, but far more detail about their 10/25 year plan than detailed anywhere else I've seen.

Definitely interesting to see the 2015 updated version. Project #16 (the "Capstone Building") could be an interesting one given its height (8 stories) and location (at the corner of Forbes and Morewood).

[SkyPittsburgh]

The 18 Story Penn Avenue building in the Strip District has made it to the ZBA for approval. They are looking to construct 81 units with retail on the bottom and integrated parking. The building overall will be 224 feet tall.

http://apps.pittsburghpa.gov/dcp/schedule64/agenda-64-683.pdf

Also in the presentation are 14 new 3 story buildings off of Wakefield Street in South Oakland.

[BrianTH]

Crude rendering of the East Liberty town center (needs a better name--how about "Hope Square," since the church is known as the Cathedral of Hope?) given a Market-Square-type treatment:



I also extended it toward the possible woonerf district below, in much the same way Market Square and PPG Place are connected (and if that was a companion green space, it would also need a name--how about "Liberties Park"?).

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by SkyPittsburgh

The 18 Story Penn Avenue building in the Strip District has made it to the ZBA for approval. They are looking to construct 81 units with retail on the bottom and integrated parking. The building overall will be 224 feet tall.

http://apps.pittsburghpa.gov/dcp/schedule64/agenda-64-683.pdf

Also in the presentation are 14 new 3 story buildings off of Wakefield Street in South Oakland.

That's a wonderful size. Crossing my fingers on this one.

[photoLith]

DSC_9376
Photo I took last night from the North Shore where you can see PNC barely peaking out of the towers. Wish it would have been about 200 feet taller but oh well, its still a really nice building.

DSC_9400
Heres another photo from last night of the backside of The Gardens.

DSC_9394
Then a bonus photo from last nights baseball failure.

And then some shameless self promotion, if you guys didn't know I have a facebook page where I upload a couple photos of today, usually of historic sites and such in Western PA, if you havent already, please check it out. https://www.facebook.com/chrislitherlandphotography

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Yeah, it isn't a bad space if you look at it in isolation, but the problem is with the way the street, bus shelter, and so on work, it gets lost in context:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4612711,...7WvYTcV__R7p_Rd9AHklA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Again, I think if you imagine that whole space right up to the buildings across Penn being converted into a Market Square-style plaza (and in fact I believe that space between the church steps and the facing buildings is over half the width of Market Square), you could have a very substantial public space, with plenty of room for events like farmer's markets, holiday markets, and so on.

Random comparison, but I was recently in Vienna and I think you could use Stephansplatz as inspiration, since that also takes the form of a large church in a relatively tight urban space:

Google map overhead:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Stepha...1!1s0x476d079f3e69c281:0x20563c156aa1fde

East Liberty overhead comparison--not quite the same scale, but close enough to get the idea:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4609369,-79.9254969,735a,20y,90h/data=!3m1!1e3

Photos indicating relatively tight confines:





Here is it set up with a holiday night market:

Spherical photo:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Stepha...1!1s0x476d079f3e69c281:0x20563c156aa1fde

Regular photo:



Edit:

OK, this should actually be to scale. Pretty similar, as it turns out:





Finally, Market Square, at the same scale:

I totally see the similarities.