Canada Election 2015 - Page 116

MolsonExport · #**2301** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by geotag277

Several points:

- there is no association between # of college degrees and intelligence

Evidence boy, evidence.

Your permanently ticked-off communication-style notwithstanding, it is disingenuous of you to make this assertion.

You are beyond ridiculous. You go on and on and fucking on about every issue, taking the conservative side of the argument almost every time, and then reveal that you may vote liberal?

kwoldtimer · #**2302** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

One thing that has taken me by complete surprise in the surge in support of the Liberals in BC. BC has always been more of a Conservative/NDP split as the province is very politically polarized and probably more so than any other province.

The NDP has always been very strong in Victoria and the Island and some key working class sections in Greater Vancouver. The Tories conversely usually dominate everything from NuWest to the Alberta border. The Liberals only ever had a decent chance in some Vancouver city seats and a couple ones in the suburbs.

The Liberal rise in the province at the expense of both the Tories and NDP is truly a first in the province and is quite surprising. I don't think anyone {including the Liberals themselves} saw this coming.

BC beginning to accept that Justin is one of theirs (on the maternal side at least)?

geotag277 · #**2303** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Jesuschristalmighty...

It doesn't matter if it's a black man advocating for slavery or a Islamic woman advocating to restrict women's rights by forcing them to remove their clothing - what matters is the substance of the argument, not who is making it.

geotag277 · #**2304** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Evidence boy, evidence.

Your permanently ticked-off communication-style notwithstanding, it is disingenuous of you to make this assertion.

You are beyond ridiculous. You go on and on and fucking on about every issue, taking the conservative side of the argument almost every time, and then reveal that you may vote liberal?

Would it blow your mind to know that I voted NDP provincially as well?

I have attacked the Conservatives plenty in this thread. To be fair I think there is plenty worth attacking the Conservatives over, I just find most of the arguments posted here not very good. Such as, posting a video that counts how many times an individual says "excuse me".

Huffington Post is hardly better than Fox News as a source of non-biased "fair and balanced" information. Let's call a spade a spade.

As to my communication style, it is more a function of myself seeking my own entertainment. Coming into this thread thinking anyone who utters "Harper is a fascist pig" is going to legitimately change their minds over a well reasoned and dignified exchange is quite absurd, so why not have fun with it.

kwoldtimer · #**2305** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:38 PM**

Meanwhile, the Liberal candidate in London-Fanshawe, Khalil Ramal, has had election posters defaced with the words "Arab Scum". One wonders how many women will be verbally or physically abused before the niqab business if finished? This is not a high point in the Canadian journey.

topdog · #**2306** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Totally OT but one thing I find interesting is the hijab (head scarf) worn by young women who are also wearing very tight jeans or pants (often with, ahem, "cameltoe")... you see that a lot these days.

My wife jokingly refers to it as "The Post-Modern Look of the 21st Century"

The ones that puzzle me are the young girls with short tops, yoga pants and high heels but still wearing the headscarf. Every religion is fill of hypocritical people, and I guess Islam is no exception. There's plenty of hypocrisy to go around, from all types.

geotag277 · #**2307** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Meanwhile, the Liberal candidate in London-Fanshawe, Khalil Ramal, has had election posters defaced with the words "Arab Scum". One wonders how many women will be verbally or physically abused before the niqab business if finished? This is not a high point in the Canadian journey.

Again, these people existed whether the Conservatives pressed the niqab issue or not. These have always been your neighbours.

flar · #**2308** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Meanwhile, the Liberal candidate in London-Fanshawe, Khalil Ramal, has had election posters defaced with the words "Arab Scum". One wonders how many women will be verbally or physically abused before the niqab business if finished? This is not a high point in the Canadian journey.

And our country's "leadership" is stoking this fire for political gain. They need to stop, things have already gone too far. It's emboldening people to openly discuss and act on feelings that were safely contained just a few weeks ago.

flar · #**2309** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by geotag277

Again, these people existed whether the Conservatives pressed the niqab issue or not. These have always been your neighbours.

And now they are emboldened and encouraged by our country's leadership. Their views are given sanction by authority. It's shameful and dangerous. This stuff is best left alone.

Acajack · #**2310** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by topdog

The ones that puzzle me are the young girls with short tops, yoga pants and high heels but still wearing the headscarf. Every religion is fill of hypocritical people, and I guess Islam is no exception. There's plenty of hypocrisy to go around, from all types.

For some people it's a question of genuine religious observance. For others (especially young people) it may be more of a fashion statement to assert their distinctiveness than anything sincerely religious. We're in a xenophilic era where being different is cool.

geotag277 · #**2311** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by flar

And now they are emboldened and encouraged by our country's leadership. Their views are given sanction by authority. It's shameful and dangerous. This stuff is best left alone.

"Keeping a lid" on something and keeping these feelings "tightly contained" is also not healthy and also is not a good path to progress IMO. It was a national conversation that needed to be had, clearly. If Canadians can't act like adults in that conversation, we need to look in the mirror.

eternallyme · #**2312** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Quebec is the real mystery in this election.

How they could go from a near one-man show to a legitimate race between the parties is really quite remarkable.

The most intriguing trend is the resurgence of the Bloc. In most of the country seats are usually a battle between 2 dominant parties and there are relatively very few legitimately 3-way races but Quebec seems to be full of them. The Bloc may only have one seat right now but that is very deceptive as it is running a very solid 2nd place in many ridings and it won't take much of a surge in their support or a decline in other parties to see the Bloc reap the windfall.

This is particularly true because they, like the Conservatives have the overwhelming amount of their support outside Greater Montreal.

What will be very interesting to see is if the NDP continues to shed votes and seats in La Belle Province and the Bloc pulls off 10 or more seats {which is they could very easily do} is the Liberals being able to pull down a Tory minority government with solely the support of the Bloc and Elizabeth May.

If the Bloc are required for the Liberals and NDP to topple the Conservatives then that won't go well at all. The dormant western separatist movement could reemerge...

Acajack · #**2313** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

True, as long as the rest of the herd is in step, anything seems possible.

What's your point? I was actually being whimsical.

geotag277 · #**2314** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternallyme

If the Bloc are required for the Liberals and NDP to topple the Conservatives then that won't go well at all. The dormant western separatist movement could reemerge...

The separatist movement will always be there like it will always be there everywhere in Canada. The people have been quite clear that it is the people who set the tone for direction of their government and not the other way around, as evidenced by what happened with the PQ. Bloc won't survive being a one track mind party in the modern age.

Acajack · #**2315** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 6:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The best argument on this issue, hands down.

I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree if you don't see this as a women's rights issue when the vast majority of women (including anti-burqa Muslim women) see it as such. These women aren't buying into the "free choice" myth either.

How many women (aside from the hand-picked burqa-wearing poster girls) have actually come out and said that banning the burqa from the citizenship ceremony is restricting women's free choices?

flar · #**2316** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 6:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by geotag277

"Keeping a lid" on something and keeping these feelings "tightly contained" is also not healthy and also is not a good path to progress IMO. It was a national conversation that needed to be had, clearly. If Canadians can't act like adults in that conversation, we need to look in the mirror.

I agree it needs to be aired, but not this way.

ssiguy · #**2317** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 6:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

BC beginning to accept that Justin is one of theirs (on the maternal side at least)?

I think, like many Canadians, Trudeau's good performance in the debates and the Liberals running a good campaign have helped sway many voters across the country including BC.

BC seems to exemplify the "soft" supporters of both the Conservatives and NDP. The NDP due to it's lackluster campaign and Mulcair's unimpressive performance. Many Tories may support their party's platform but have, like most Canadians} a dislike of the man and his governance style.

This of course was all helped along by the Tories themselves.........their "just not ready" campaign was a bit too successful and his good performance has made him look even better as the Conservatives set expectations so low.

Procrastinational · #**2318** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 6:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

One thing that has taken me by complete surprise in the surge in support of the Liberals in BC. BC has always been more of a Conservative/NDP split as the province is very politically polarized and probably more so than any other province.

The NDP has always been very strong in Victoria and the Island and some key working class sections in Greater Vancouver. The Tories conversely usually dominate everything from NuWest to the Alberta border. The Liberals only ever had a decent chance in some Vancouver city seats and a couple ones in the suburbs.

The Liberal rise in the province at the expense of both the Tories and NDP is truly a first in the province and is quite surprising. I don't think anyone {including the Liberals themselves} saw this coming.

It's a very interesting trend.

The NDP/Conservative split has certainly been the norm in BC for a number of decades, but going back far enough, it's interesting to note that the Liberals had a reasonable presence in BC through the post war period up until Pierre Trudeau.

The Liberals were shut out of BC in the 1958 and 1980 elections, but between those two elections they consistently sent a few Liberal MP's to Ottawa. In fact, in 1968, at the height of Trudeaumania, BC elected 16 Liberal MP's, 7 from the NDP, and none from the Progressive Conservatives.

Also of note is that the provincial Liberal Party in BC (then affiliated with the federal Liberal Party) consistently held third party status after the war up until the 1979 election.

Perhaps BC voters feel that the Liberal party under Justin Trudeau will actually represent the interests of the province for once. I can't think of another Liberal leader that has actually lived in BC.

Acajack · #**2319** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 6:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by flar

And now they are emboldened and encouraged by our country's leadership. Their views are given sanction by authority. It's shameful and dangerous. This stuff is best left alone.

I tend to be of the "pox on both your houses" view.

I am angry, dismayed and concerned that this has become and election issue. And the ballot question (apparently for so many Canadians). Personally, I wasn't going to vote for them anyway so it's irrelevant to my electoral choices.

On the other hand, I do find that on this and some other issues, the progressive left community in Canada (of which I consider myself to be a part BTW) has been somewhat gutless and even cowardly in its haste/laxness to accept even the most illiberal things under the guise of cosmpolitan-ness. Seemingly in an attempt to "out-tolerate" everyone else.

I really do have a genuine concern that Canada is becoming a country that doesn't really stand for anything out of a fear of offending someone, somewhere.

Sometimes you do have to take a stand even if it's unpopular.

ssiguy · #**2320** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 6:13 PM**

Another point............

Let's drop the damn Niqab debate!!! It's influence on the election is now gone as anyone who may have changed their mind due to the issue has done so by now.

I suggest anyone who wants to continue the discussion is more than free to start a new thread about the issue but in this thread it has been beaten to death so please let's move on.