Canada Election 2015

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by topdog

Safety concerns obviously. For me though, I think when dealing with a public servant face to face, you should be able to see their face, and full facial expressions. Especially important for jobs like teachers or any kind of job where they are speaking a fair bit.

For example, I would never want my child to be taught be a women wearing a niqab or burka...or any man or woman with the face covered. I would request to have my child moved, and I shouldn't have to do that.

.

As the father of young girls, I'd also be concerned about the message that would send to my daughters. (And I also wouldn't want my kids' teachers wearing booty shorts either BTW.)

[topdog]

This is not tyanny for the masses. I know where you're coming from but you're simplifying the issue. This is about the niqab and covering one's face. At least it is for me. It's the same issue I have with Sharia law. It's a custom that's not needed or integral to the religion.
It's not about oppression to practising a religion. Muslim women can wear the hijab and still be Muslim, or even wear no heard garb at all and still be Muslim.

Originally Posted by CanSpice

This is tyranny of the masses, and I'm really disappointed to see so many people falling for it. The right to practice one's religion is enshrined in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and that right has been upheld by the Supreme Court. I don't understand why so many people are so adamantly supporting religious discrimination, when it flies in the face of what I thought were Canadian values.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by topdog

Safety concerns obviously. For me though, I think when dealing with a public servant face to face, you should be able to see their face, and full facial expressions. Especially important for jobs like teachers or any kind of job where they are speaking a fair bit.

For example, I would never want my child to be taught be a women wearing a niqab or burka...or any man or woman with the face covered. I would request to have my child moved, and I shouldn't have to do that.

You also have to consider the fellow employees and the uncomfortableness of working with someone who has their face covered.

If it's a private company or business, then I don't care what the people wear. they could dress up like a mummy for all I care.

I'm afraid I don't consider "discomfort" on behalf of one's peers as a valid reason for coerced conformity. There are so many differences that a person can have that could potentially make others uncomfortable if they aren't accustomed to it, or hold some type of prejudice against it, that allowing such a "heckler's veto" almost seems like writing a blank cheque for discrimination. For me, it would really need to be limited to functional concerns, meaning that it would have to be having a tangible effect, rather than just an emotional effect, on others.

[Acajack]

So it seems like Irshad Manji is against opening the door wider to the niqab/burqa in official proceedings in Canada.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Just looking over my voter information card.

My poll is literally across the street. Just curious how far you guys are from yours? Anybody have one really inconvenient?

Mine is down the block, where it usually is; maybe a 5 minute walk away, give or take a little. Not quite on a bus route but about halfway between two bus routes, so very handy regardless.

On the other hand, University de Moncton apparently has no voting stations on campus and that's got them more than a little annoyed, but they are taking it in hand by arranging for busing to the Elections Canada offices for students to vote.

Reading the article, it does say the Campus stations are a pilot project, so I might give Elections Canada a pass in that respect. On the other hand, Elections New Brunswick has regularly been having stations on that campus, so you would think EC might take that into consideration.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Just looking over my voter information card.

My poll is literally across the street. Just curious how far you guys are from yours? Anybody have one really inconvenient?

Mine is in the elementary school in the middle of the neighbourhood where one of my kids goes. It's less than a km away.

[kwoldtimer]

So Mulcair this morning committed an additional $1.8 billion to improve First Nations' education, which is a bit less than the Conservatives offered in the offer that was rejected some time ago. I think the Liberals have pledged an additional amount over the failed Conservative offer. I wonder, however, whether any of the three will be able to negotiate successfully the buy in of the First Nations leadership?

[SignalHillHiker]

I saw footage on the news here of hundreds-long lines of MUN students voting early. Didn't notice if it was on campus or not.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So it seems like Irshad Manji is against opening the door wider to the niqab/burqa in official proceedings in Canada.

Was there any doubt?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I saw footage on the news here of hundreds-long lines of MUN students voting early. Didn't notice if it was on campus or not.

That's interesting. Getting university students out to vote seems to be a big challenge in much of the country.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's not really totally neutral though. It's an accommodation or at least an "exception".

As I said way back, I see the niqab/burqa kind of like smoking. Sure people can do it if they want to but our government and society shouldn't encourage it by rolling out the welcome mat for it.

I consider that a reasonable simile in the sense that it's a regressive cultural practice that the government doesn't approve of but is still legal. I consider it different in the sense that smoking has a tangible effect on other people in the sense that they'd be unavoidably breathing in harmful substances. If you wanted to "accommodate" this without other people being affected, you need to spend a lot of money by building special smoking rooms or ventilation systems. Like I said earlier, I don't see the oath issue as being a real accommodation as it doesn't actually require us to do anything other than verify the person's identity privately, which doesn't cost anything.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

There's a reason that statistically Conservatives are less educated than progressives.

Must be one of the most face palming utterances in this entire thread.

"Hey guys, my team has more college degrees than your team"

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

What a load of horseshit.
And the links are broken.

Funny how Pew Research (and just about every other respectable polling/research organization) reports the opposite.

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/

Several points:

- there are different/better forms of education than college degrees

- there is no association between # of college degrees and intelligence

- there is no association between having a college degree and being a decent human being

That said, being affiliated with any party in any official capacity such that all you are is a vacuous vassal of cheer-leading for said party automatically puts you in the running behind a sack of potatoes in any race of intelligence in my books. I notice independents are typically at the top of the pile in education and I imagine that is the only takeaway of any worth from any of these studies.

[topdog]

Discomfort is a gray area. Like you said, there are many other things that could cause discomfort, and there is already is precedent how that is handled. People not bathing, or women wearing clothes that are too revealing for example have been dealt with. My father in law worked with woman who wouldn't bathe, and she was eventually let go. Of course that was 25 years ago, but still.
You can call it prejudice all you want, but I don't want to work with someone who's face I can't see, regardless of the reasons. It's not fair to me if I can see their faces when having a work related conversation with them.

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I'm afraid I don't consider "discomfort" on behalf of one's peers as a valid reason for coerced conformity. There are so many differences that a person can have that could potentially make others uncomfortable if they aren't accustomed to it, or hold some type of prejudice against it, that allowing such a "heckler's veto" almost seems like writing a blank cheque for discrimination. For me, it would really need to be limited to functional concerns, meaning that it would have to be having a tangible effect, rather than just an emotional effect, on others.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Just looking over my voter information card.

My poll is literally across the street. Just curious how far you guys are from yours? Anybody have one really inconvenient?

I have to applaud the vain attempt to get people off the niqab topic

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

So no matter how many times a woman comes to you and intelligently indicates her preferences and desires for the right to make her own decision, you will still be convinced that you don't need to listen to her and that women aren't capable of deciding for themselves and therefore must have someone more competent such as yourself to make the choice for them. That's the most anti-feminist, feminist statement I've ever heard.

In my faculty there are a fairly large number of female Professors that are practicing Muslims, who choose to wear the headscarf. In my discussions with them, all--to the letter--have told me that they themselves made the decision.

[RWin]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I saw footage on the news here of hundreds-long lines of MUN students voting early. Didn't notice if it was on campus or not.

My daughter voted on campus yesterday.

For the correct candidate

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

In my faculty there are a fairly large number of female Professors that are practicing Muslims, who choose to wear the headscarf. In my discussions with them, all--to the letter--have told me that they themselves made the decision.

How do they feel about face veils?

[kwoldtimer]

The Conservatives have announced some improvements to the EI parental leave benefits. Do the NDP or Liberals have anything comparable in their platforms?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/poli...er-employment-insurance/article26700383/

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As the father of young girls, I'd also be concerned about the message that would send to my daughters. (And I also wouldn't want my kids' teachers wearing booty shorts either BTW.)

Growing up catholic in 1950s Montreal, my mother's teachers all looked like this at her boarding school:

writingbetweenfriends

Evidently my mom did not become a nun.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

That's interesting. Getting university students out to vote seems to be a big challenge in much of the country.

Oh it is here too. We generally have the lowest voter turnout in every category for federal elections.

In 2011, we had:

Males
18-24: 27%
25-34: 32%
35-44: 44%

Females
18-24: 32%
25-34: 37%
35-44: 51%