The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[swimmer_spe]

Why did they not build an above ground Skytrain in downtown Vancouver? That answer is why it will not happen to Toronto.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Why did they not build an above ground Skytrain in downtown Vancouver? That answer is why it will not happen to Toronto.

That's only in the very core of Vancouver (ignoring the Canada Line which spends more time underground than some Toronto subways), there's plenty of areas on the edge of the downtown which are elevated.

Plus layers of transit make a city feel bigger. Also the Japanese do elevated rail through some of the densest cities on earth.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Why did they not build an above ground Skytrain in downtown Vancouver? That answer is why it will not happen to Toronto.

The answer is that there is an underground railway tunnel that already existed in Vancouver built in the 1930s long before the first Skytrain line was constructed that was able to be re-purposed for the Skytrain. I'm surprised to learn that this is the same as in Toronto!

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The Chicago L almost certainly would not be built today.

With Chicago's density around the core, it would very probably be built as a subway, but the network wouldn't be as extensive since tunnelling is much more expensive.

[TorontoDrew]

Chicago also needs to deal with the Chicago River, including the North and South branch which is essentially acts as 3 rivers in the downtown core. Other the the Red line (I believe) the rest are all elevated at the loop. To ad more below grade in Chicago's core would be extremely expensive. While they may not have built the L now they wouldn't have so many lines going into the core without it.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Chicago also needs to deal with the Chicago River, including the North and South branch which is essentially acts as 3 rivers in the downtown core. Other the the Red line (I believe) the rest are all elevated at the loop. To ad more below grade in Chicago's core would be extremely expensive. While they may not have built the L now they wouldn't have so many lines going into the core without it.

The Blue line is also underground in the Loop, but you're right.

[Nouvellecosse]

The Red and Blue lines are both subway. *edit - didn't see previous post

[WhipperSnapper]

Building underground anywhere offers challenges. Chicago River became a canal over 100 years ago to funnel sewage out of the core. The core was raised as well allowing for an extensive network of underground roads.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

Recall that the technology is flexible. Where overhead doesn't fit, it can be tunneled or even fenced at grade.

The format (if not the particular technology itself, like the Canada Line) would have been perfect for Eglinton Crosstown or Sheppard, especially if the TTC were to pull up the political Moxie and tell the union's to shove it while they run the trains automatic

It is not so much about unions or politicians, it is about a cost compromise. A fully grade separated line would have been much more expensive to build. There is only so much money in the pot, and it becomes more and more difficult to justify complete grade separation as you move out into suburban areas unless you already have an existing right of way available.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Building underground anywhere offers challenges. Chicago River became a canal over 100 years ago to funnel sewage out of the core. The core was raised as well allowing for an extensive network of underground roads.

They're technically not underground but more covered and double decked roadways. Chicago also has about 60 miles of underground former freight-ways that crisscross the core and are prone to flooding. The L-System has probably saved Chicago countless dollars over the years of maintenance and cleanup. It';s also a pretty unique feature of the city that most people want to preserve as is.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ The loop could be improved greatly by adding another level, but I am not sure whether the capacity is needed 0 would ridership grow enough if you were able to add capacity?

[Nouvellecosse]

I wonder how much the capacity restraints are behind the lowish ridership on the L system. But then again, the two subway lines aren't subject to the bottleneck of the elevated loop, so probably not much.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

They're technically not underground but more covered and double decked roadways. Chicago also has about 60 miles of underground former freight-ways that crisscross the core and are prone to flooding. The L-System has probably saved Chicago countless dollars over the years of maintenance and cleanup. It';s also a pretty unique feature of the city that most people want to preserve as is.

Well, I was referring to the downtown section where the L is certainly underpreforming compared to the two subways. I'm sure a small fortune has gone into maintenance and rebuilding. Tunnels are a lot cheaper

[rbt]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

^ You must not think much of the Chicago L!

Chicago hates the first 50 feet above ground near the L. It's not desirable for work, living space, and retail struggles; parking seems to be a common use. Move one block away from the L and retail lease rates increase. I'd like to see some official pedestrian counts for Chicago as I suspect the streets parallel to the L have more than those directly under it.

7th Line through Queens appears to suffer too. Buildings a couple blocks away appear far more desirable than directly adjacent to the line, including stations.

[Nouvellecosse]

Despite its "iconic" status, I personally hate the L loop. I think a lot of the reverence it gets is merely making the best of the situation knowing it's unlikely to change any time soon.

[SteelTown]

Looks like Hamilton is going back to having electrified buses again in Lower Hamilton.

Hamilton heads “back to the future” with HSR fleet fueled by natural gas

http://www.900chml.com/2015/09/29/hamilton-heads-back-to-the-future-with-compressed-n/

AM900 CHML | Hamilton News Sara Cain September 29, 2015

The City of Hamilton is taking a look into the past in order to move forward when it comes to fueling the HSR bus fleet.

Union Gas has announced the completion a new compressed natural gas station that will help fuel up to 120 buses.

The move marks a transition by the city from using natural gas for vehicles to diesel in 2004 and now back again.

Hamilton Mayor, Fred Eisenberger says the city is moving back to the future with a reliable choice given the challenge of the escarpment.

“We’re looking at an electrified system down in the lower city but it’s alot more difficult to achieve in the upper city” he said.

Adding that “compressed natural gas gives us that flexibility and ability to actually serve all of the residents in a cost effective and efficient way.”

The City of Hamilton expects to save approximately 40 million dollars with the switch, over the next 20 years.

During that same period, gas emissions are expected to drop by 25 per cent, the equivalent or removing over 18 thousand passenger vehicles from the roadway.

The City plans to replace about 18 buses annually with CNG until 2020.

[SkahHigh]

The STM is installing new signage in 17 of it's Metro stations by 2020. I like it, it looks much more modern!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig4Z6EL_KU4

[gunnar777]

[QUOTE=SkahHigh;7186787]The STM is installing new signage in 17 of it's Metro stations by 2020. I like it, it looks much more modern!

New signage.
In 17 (of 68) stations.
By 2020.

Jeebus, nothing ever changes here! Seriously, why not: new signage across the metro, within 3 weeks (about the time required to order, receive and install the signs from an online print shop)?

[SkahHigh]

[QUOTE=gunnar777;7187556]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

The STM is installing new signage in 17 of it's Metro stations by 2020. I like it, it looks much more modern!

New signage.
In 17 (of 68) stations.
By 2020.

Jeebus, nothing ever changes here! Seriously, why not: new signage across the metro, within 3 weeks (about the time required to order, receive and install the signs from an online print shop)?

They are focusing on changing signage in stations that will experience renovations between 2015 and 2020.

[SkahHigh]

Montreal's 62nd commuter rail station will begin construction in the following weeks. Du Canal Station on the Candiac line, located in the Lachine borough, will be completed at the end of 2016.