DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I too would like to know what the secret sauce is that makes Toronto work politically. I love how Denver "leaders" take trips up to Toronto to learn what works and what doesn't... and then come back here to do absolutely nothing to promote a growth agenda. I think Denver is content being a city of transient renters, so long as we have pot and bike lanes. Should make for a glorious crash when millennials start hitting 40.

It's true that Toronto's high rise boom is impressive, but American cities might not want to replicate trends in that city in every respect. Most notably, the average home price is 609k CDN. There's a really interesting blog post over at one of my favorite urban issues blogs, Urban kchoze, about why might Toronto's home values be significantly higher than Montreal's.

[mhays]

Highrises are often the best affordable option in Toronto. Not new ones in great areas of course. But look at prices in the typical 1970s slab in a moderate or cheaper area.

They also allow Toronto to grow at a high rate without sprawling very much. It's similar in Vancouver.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

PLANSIT... Gotcha




It just occurred to me that perhaps East-West and Continuum have something comparable to the Portland Meriwether condo project in mind for the Market Street Station redevelopment? It does sound like they've got something exciting in mind.

Market Street Station is in Lodo, you can't build that there.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

I just got back from Toronto and holy hell, there's so much construction going on. It puts anything we have going on in Denver to shame in both volume and scale. It's mostly 50+ story condo towers, which is amazing. The urban feel of Toronto was also surprising. It's more populous than Chicago but, it's got a pretty easy going vibe to it. Also, there's a big trend of preserving facades. Basically, imagine the historical buildings in downtown on Champa being completely gutted and pop-topped with a 80 story condo tower. It was absolutely unreal. Now that I'm back, I can't help but look at Denver through a Toronto lens and feel even more frustrated at all of these 3 story "TODs" under scrutiny by every NIMBY crying about too much traffic.

I just spent a week working downtown San Francisco, and felt the same way. So much construction going on, and so tall.

[PLANSIT]

Not sure if anyone caught it, but South Park essentially made fun of city planning on Wednesday. They even had a shout out to one of Ken's biggest pet peeves:

The Lofts at SoDoSoPa

[Denver Dweller]

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/mornin...mA+ElKTwGoSbqOBYu5F/O7W7Amf&t=1443801406

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

PLANSITIt just occurred to me that perhaps East-West and Continuum have something comparable to the Portland Meriwether condo project in mind for the Market Street Station redevelopment? It does sound like they've got something exciting in mind.

They've got Z Block Part II in mind because that's what you can build in LoDo. Yay.

Seriously, E/W/Continuum sold Block B in August for $20M to Amstar, an apartment developer (and I bet that they also sold the building design as well as a turnkey project). Is anyone seriously shocked that it's now going to be apartments?

At least E/W/Continuum has $20M in additional cash to put towards another project- minus paying off whatever loan went towards the initial B Block purchase.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

They've got Z Block Part II in mind because that's what you can build in LoDo. Yay.

Seriously, E/W/Continuum sold Block B in August for $20M to Amstar, an apartment developer (and I bet that they also sold the building design as well as a turnkey project). Is anyone seriously shocked that it's now going to be apartments?

At least E/W/Continuum has $20M in additional cash to put towards another project- minus paying off whatever loan went towards the initial B Block purchase.

The plans submitted to the planning board still call this project a condominium. Not sure where RDS got his info from, but if this did not change the information on the plans, maybe there still is some hope...

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/mornin...mA+ElKTwGoSbqOBYu5F/O7W7Amf&t=1443801406

Lovely. Further confirmation that this situation does not change until Republicans take back the General Assembly.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Lovely. Further confirmation that this situation does not change until Republicans take back the General Assembly.

Is there a bevy of moderate Republicans ready to run for election? Because when Tim Neville is your front-runner for Senator.....

....I don't have a ton of hope. Nor am I sure if defect legislation is worth the other — that we would be fosted upon the state by a party whose agenda is currently being dictated from the fringes.

[TakeFive]

Ed Sealover Denver Business Journal has today's rosy outlook on the local hotel scene.

Some 2,500 new hotel rooms are expected to come into the Denver-area market next year... A panel of hotel operators and financiers speaking Thursday at the 2015 Denver Hospitality Summit gave arguably the most rosy outlook for the industry in recent memory.

“I don’t think the growing supply we know about can grow fast enough to dent the momentum,” said Deno Yiankes, president and CEO of the investment and development division of White Lodging...

This is rather interesting...

Occupancy rates in Denver-area hotels are up 1.7 percent this year, and are reaching record or near-record levels, led by hotels around Denver International Airport that have been filled at 81.3 percent capacity throughout 2015, said Ali Hoyt...

That looks positive for the new DIA Westin Hotel.



Ed Sealover Denver Business Journal also had the recent coverage about the refresh of the Grand Hyatt Denver including spiffy slides.

The Grand Hyatt is 35 years old now, making it one of the more elder statesmen in the downtown area. And while it had continued to see good business in attracting groups of 100 to 150 people in recent years, Stiebeling felt it needed an extra push to make it stand out as it seeks multi-day meetings of pharmaceutical, high-tech and financial-services firms

I assume not many here can recall admiring the construction cranes that built this one?

Courtesy Elite Mettings

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Lovely. Further confirmation that this situation does not change until Republicans take back the General Assembly.

Yeah that was my best guess as well. I still don't get it.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Is there a bevy of moderate Republicans ready to run for election? Because when Tim Neville is your front-runner for Senator.....

....I don't have a ton of hope. Nor am I sure if defect legislation is worth the other — that we would be fosted upon the state by a party whose agenda is currently being dictated from the fringes.

Neville is running for U.S. Senate which is irrelevant to state legislation of course. Not sure who else will run in that primary? Hopefully Bennett survives but the money will pour in for that election.

Down here the business community got involved at the primary level, looking for good business friendly but practical candidates as opposed to total nut cases. Worked pretty well.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

....I don't have a ton of hope. Nor am I sure if defect legislation is worth the other — that we would be fosted upon the state by a party whose agenda is currently being dictated from the fringes.

Like what? I'm not worried about social issues - that's why we have courts. We already have TABOR, so I am not sure how much more anti-tax/anti-spending we could realistically get. I am confident they'd spend the money we have. So it's hard for me to see how much bad could be done by the GOP at the state level. Sure, they won't push any new progressive taxes on to the ballot... but statewide dems haven't been very bold about that either. In fact, have statewide dems done anything that the courts haven't also taken care of for them?

Besides, the GOP doesn't have many great candidates for Governor. As long as the dems control that, I'm willing to give the GOP the legislature.

[ramanboy33]

.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Like what? I'm not worried about social issues - that's why we have courts. We already have TABOR, so I am not sure how much more anti-tax/anti-spending we could realistically get. I am confident they'd spend the money we have. So it's hard for me to see how much bad could be done by the GOP at the state level. Sure, they won't push any new progressive taxes on to the ballot... but statewide dems haven't been very bold about that either. In fact, have statewide dems done anything that the courts haven't also taken care of for them?

Besides, the GOP doesn't have many great candidates for Governor. As long as the dems control that, I'm willing to give the GOP the legislature.

Yup, 2016 is the best year as Hickenlooper is still there. Looks like a swing of 2 seats is needed. Gotta get that construction defects law passed and waiting until 2018 just multiplies the pain.

Sometimes when a party takes over the majority, the adults in the room come up with reasonable stuff. Ideological — will be a non-starter so long as Hickenlooper is there. The downside is that they'll pass some — and make Hickenlooper veto it as they look ahead and posture for the 2018 Governor's race. Ah the idiocy of politics.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Like what? I'm not worried about social issues - that's why we have courts. We already have TABOR, so I am not sure how much more anti-tax/anti-spending we could realistically get. I am confident they'd spend the money we have. So it's hard for me to see how much bad could be done by the GOP at the state level. Sure, they won't push any new progressive taxes on to the ballot... but statewide dems haven't been very bold about that either. In fact, have statewide dems done anything that the courts haven't also taken care of for them?

Besides, the GOP doesn't have many great candidates for Governor. As long as the dems control that, I'm willing to give the GOP the legislature.

TABOR is my worry. The GOP's last transit funding attempt was such a craven attempt at scraping the bottom of the barrel (let's bond a bunch of road projects using annual O&M funding) that I seriously question if there's one GOP member of the legislature that has a business background that doesn't revolve around providing political consultation services and can provide a sustainable fiscal path forward for the state. OTOH hand, I wonder if there's any Dems in the legislature who's primary occupation isn't sucking trial lawyer —.

[TakeFive]

Of two recent estimates of state revenue, one fell short enough that COT would get $200 million per year in General Revenue transfers. The Governor's updated estimate just exceeded the necessary threshold meaning CDOT would only get $100 million. They won't get the real answer until the end of March.

I don't blame them so much for wishful thinking knowing the difficulty in seeking voter approval. Interestingly, I believe the top three growing counties are red. Ultimately they will have to take something to the voters if they want driveable/new roads.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Ultimately they will have to take something to the voters if they want driveable/new roads.

No, they'll just have to get used to tolls.

[seventwenty]

Welcome to SoDoSoPa.

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Or considering this is Fairplay, maybe I should move it to the Front Range thread.

[The Dirt]

Anyone at union station right now? They have a giant printout of the downtown map from Denver infill.