Canada Election 2015 - Page 72

mr.John · #**1421** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 4:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi

If Harper somehow wins a Majority with let's say 37% of the vote than we have a problem with our democracy.

When you Factor in the people who don't vote, you could have that douchebag Harper running the country with the support of only 27% of the eligible voters

• Video Link

MolsonExport · #**1422** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 4:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spliff

My mother is a well educated, generous, tolerant, well-travelled person, who has lived in Montreal, New York and Vancouver. She is the furthest thing from a "angry, scared, selfish, greedy, xenophobic" person...and she will vote conservative this election.

Perhaps MolsonExport, you actually embody the traits that you profess to hate.

I said backbone of support. Backbone. Perhaps Spliff, you should read before you type.

Intolerant people don't vote for Olivia Chow. They vote for Rob Ford.
Intolerant people don't vote for Barack Obama. They vote for asswipes like Trump.
Intolerant people don't vote for Mulcair. They vote for Harper.

MolsonExport · #**1423** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 4:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migs

No kidding. The funny thing is that the left are in fact the people they themselves hate the most. Al Gore & David Suzuki preach against capitalism, both are millionaires with multiple homes. Trudeau speaks out against the privileged, comes with huge trust fund & charges thousands (including universities) in speaking fees. Mulcair preaches about protecting the environment at all costs, jets all over the country & leaves his tour buses idling for hours while not in use. Etc etc etc

I'm curious if Trudeau has actually figured out yet what the middle class is.

I beg your pardon? Who the hell are you fooling? May I remind you that you actually advocated dropping nuclear bombs on cities in the Middle East?

Mulcair jets across the country on an election campaign? And that's your argument? Good Lord, that is pathetic.

MolsonExport · #**1424** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 4:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well said. One of the most off-putting features amongst so called progressives is their tendency to character assassinate those of us who might be more conservative in our viewpoints.

Just because we might be traditionalist doesn't mean that we are intolerant. We might even embrace change, but it must be well thought out change, and change for a good reason. Change merely for changes sake can be unnecessarily disruptive and a fool's errand......

The status quo occasionally is the best option.......

Yeah, I am a true xenophobe that just so happens to be in an interracial marriage.

One of the most off-putting features amongst so called conservatives is their propensity of making straw man arguments and their tendency to make false equivalencies.

Go ahead and try to convince me that the right wing is more progressive and tolerant than the centre and left.

flar · #**1425** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 4:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spliff

My mother is a well educated, generous, tolerant, well-travelled person, who has lived in Montreal, New York and Vancouver. She is the furthest thing from a "angry, scared, selfish, greedy, xenophobic" person...and she will vote conservative this election.

Perhaps MolsonExport, you actually embody the traits that you profess to hate.

No offence to you, but perhaps one's mother is not the best example to counter with. She is quite likely motivated by all kinds of things that you may not be aware of, just like all of us.

For better or worse, political strategists know how to manipulate both latent and manifest hopes and fears in the population, don't be surprised if some of these very words and characterizations are thrown around by the backroom political strategists of all the parties.

The Conservatives are, by far, the most likely to push these buttons. Middle class people with families have deep economic fears that they could lose what they have, so don't rock the boat with socialism. Rural people harbour deep resentments of urban intellectual professionals, so destroy the CBC, which is a symbol of this class. People with kids are scared of crime and terrorism, so play up those threats. White people fear losing ground to immigrants and Quebeckers fear the loss of language and culture, so they play issues like face coverings and Syrian refugees, tacitly connecting these to fear of Islamic terrorism.

The Liberals and NDP play on resentment of the rich, which resonates with some people but doesn't play well on a large scale in North America due to poorly developed class consciousness. But generally, these two parties don't play too much with populism, wedge issues and the politics of fear. They have an opening on fear of Americanization, which I suggested here a couple weeks ago, but they haven't capitalized on it.

lio45 · #**1426** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 4:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-tacular

The lengths you conservatives go to defend the CPC are ridiculous. Any argument that requires you going to the opposite extreme isn't worth anything. Not everything is so black and white.

I was merely pointing out that either we let individual MPs have at least some individual power as MPs, or else it doesn't matter at all what the meatbag thinks personally since it's only a flesh-and-bones instrument giving 1/338th voting power to the party it belongs to.

With Harper, it's clearly TOTALLY the latter.

So we don't need to care about what Chloe Ellis has to say personally... she's a pure tool (literally!) who's going to be voting alongside Harper and his platform for the entire duration of her tenure if it turns out that the CPC is the party the people of New Westminster - Burnaby decide to choose. In fact... has anyone seen her? Maybe she's only "Chloe", the housecat of old Mrs Ellis. If the people of New Westminster - Burnaby mostly prefer Harper's ideas and platform over Mulcair's and Trudeau's, they'll choose the tool (whether incarnated by a human or animal, shouldn't even matter) by which they're granting their 1/338th of Parliament to Harper instead of granting it to one of his rivals.

MolsonExport · #**1427** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 4:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by flar

No offence to you, but perhaps one's mother is not the best example to counter with. She is quite likely motivated by all kinds of things that you may not be aware of, just like all of us.

For better or worse, political strategists know how to manipulate both latent and manifest hopes and fears in the population, don't be surprised if some of these very words and characterizations are thrown around by the backroom political strategists of all the parties.

The Conservatives are, by far, the most likely to push these buttons. Middle class people with families have deep economic fears that they could lose what they have, so don't rock the boat with socialism. Rural people harbour deep resentments of urban intellectual professionals, so destroy the CBC, which is a symbol of this class. People with kids are scared of crime and terrorism, so play up those threats. White people fear losing ground to immigrants and Quebeckers fear the loss of language and culture, so they play issues like face coverings and Syrian refugees, tacitly connecting these to fear of Islamic terrorism.

The Liberals and NDP play on resentment of the rich, which resonates with some people but doesn't play well on a large scale in North America due to poorly developed class consciousness. But generally, these two parties don't play too much with populism, wedge issues and the politics of fear. They have an opening on fear of Americanization, which I suggested here a couple weeks ago, but they haven't capitalized on it.

Thanks for putting this much more eloquently than I could have.

Bcasey25raptor · #**1428** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 4:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.John

When you Factor in the people who don't vote, you could have that douchebag Harper running the country with the support of only 27% of the eligible voters

• Video Link

With 3 left parties and 1 right party, Tories can't lose.

This is the bottom of harpers popularity yet he doesn't care. If anything he was grinning when the NDP and Liberals were tied.

The left in Canada is 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 stupid and WILL hand harper another mandate.

Well, unless the NDP support drops below 20% and the 7% than left NDP went liberal, then we would be seeing a liberal pm.

If you want my opinion.

Either bring in proportional representation, or the NDP must die.

ssiguy · #**1429** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 5:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migs

Ontario is quite odd indeed, first Rob Ford now Wynne. Yikes.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

I don't care what you think of Wynne but Ford was a violent, drug addicted, sexist, homophobic, sociopathic criminal and him being a CONSERVATIVE had nothing to do with it.

This is why people tend to ignore your comments, you can't make a comment that is not so wildly partisan.

kiwi · #**1430** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 5:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

With 3 left parties and 1 right party, Tories can't lose.

This is the bottom of harpers popularity yet he doesn't care. If anything he was grinning when the NDP and Liberals were tied.

The left in Canada is 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 stupid and WILL hand harper another mandate.

Well, unless the NDP support drops below 20% and the 7% than left NDP went liberal, then we would be seeing a liberal pm.

If you want my opinion.

Either bring in proportional representation, or the NDP must die.

Honest if Harper does win a majority(god help us) I feel like an NDP, Liberal merger will be a real possibility.

Nouvellecosse · #**1431** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 5:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

With 3 left parties and 1 right party, Tories can't lose.

This is the bottom of harpers popularity yet he doesn't care. If anything he was grinning when the NDP and Liberals were tied.

The left in Canada is 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 stupid and WILL hand harper another mandate.

Well, unless the NDP support drops below 20% and the 7% than left NDP went liberal, then we would be seeing a liberal pm.

If you want my opinion.

Either bring in proportional representation, or either the NDP or LPC must die.

There, fixed that for you.

kiwi · #**1432** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 5:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

With 3 left parties and 1 right party, Tories can't lose.

This is the bottom of harpers popularity yet he doesn't care. If anything he was grinning when the NDP and Liberals were tied.

The left in Canada is 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 stupid and WILL hand harper another mandate.

Well, unless the NDP support drops below 20% and the 7% than left NDP went liberal, then we would be seeing a liberal pm.

If you want my opinion.

Either bring in proportional representation, or the NDP must die.

In terms of proportional representation what Countries can we look at as a model?

ssiguy · #**1433** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 5:26 PM**

I still stand by my post of yesterday, it will be the NDP who will be the real winners in this election regardless of who actually wins it.

I also, despite the new polls, think it will be a Liberal minority. These counts do NOT include the ABC vote which is stronger than it's been since I can remember. Polls today reflect exactly that..............how people will vote if an election were held today. The issue is that an election is not being held today.

When people respond they are stating who they feel best represents their views, which leader they prefer, and which policies resonate with them the most. Of course, responding to those questions is who you WANT to win not who you are necessarily going to vote for. This has been proven time and time again as late night NDP supporters switch to the Liberals at the last minute to keep the Conservatives out of power and it has always been to the benefit of the Liberals and their classic "don't split the vote" message they sent out ad nauseum right before the election date.

The Liberals have little to gain, or fear, in Quebec as they really don't have much of a shot in expanding their current estimated 18 seats but those seats are rock solid. It is quite interesting to see the Conservative seat count rise in Quebec however.

ssiguy · #**1434** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 5:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi

In terms of proportional representation what Countries can we look at as a model?

There are many options and I don't profess to be an expert on any of them.

The difference between Canada and nearly all other countries is that have an effective and elected senate..........just because you are the party in power does not mean you can run the country like a fiefdom. All legislation has to be somewhat of a compromise or at least one that is palatable to all parties or it will not pass both houses.

In Canada the Senate is a retirement home and is just a technical office building with a rubber stamp as it's only reason for existing. Canada is amongst the most undemocratic of democracies.

no_name · #**1435** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 5:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I said backbone of support. Backbone. Perhaps Spliff, you should read before you type.

Intolerant people don't vote for Olivia Chow. They vote for Rob Ford.
Intolerant people don't vote for Barack Obama. They vote for asswipes like Trump.
Intolerant people don't vote for Mulcair. They vote for Harper.

Wow, what can I say?
I am surprised that, as a professor you make blanket statements like above. I would hope you know better than that. Just because someone vote different from you, they are intolerant?

Migs · #**1436** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 5:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I beg your pardon? Who the hell are you fooling? May I remind you that you actually advocated dropping nuclear bombs on cities in the Middle East?

Mulcair jets across the country on an election campaign? And that's your argument? Good Lord, that is pathetic.

The world was a lot safer place after Hiroshima, with Iran on the verge of obtaining a nuclear weapon & obtaining ICBMs from the Russians & their sole purpose is to wipe Isreal off the map, I'd rather that dirt cesspool of a region eat a nuke before our Jewish friends do. Don't even have to actually do it, just let those ISIS goat lovers think there might be a chance it happens. People were afraid of Reagan, that's why his foreign policy worked.

But that wasn't my point in regards to domestic affairs. Are you denying that lefties Suzuki & Gore are really millionaire capitalists? Are you denying that Trudeau was born with a silver spoon in his mouth & still cannot define what middle class is yet claims he is their champion? Are you denying that Mulcairs carbon footprint is atrocious for someone who claims the climate is in peril? I could go on & on.

artvandelay · #**1437** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 6:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Even a progressive, sophisticated and multicultural city like Toronto can elect an ignoramus buffoon like Rob Ford. The angry, scared, selfish (or greedy) and xenophobic folk are legion across the country, and they form the backbone of conservative support.

Statements such as this point to your own ignorance moreso than that of Conservative voters.

Perhaps yourself, Migs, and O-Tac can start your own thread for memes, insults, and other childish nonsense while the rest of us continue with intelligent discussion in this thread.

ssiguy · #**1438** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 6:25 PM**

I have no lost love for Israel.

They seem to go out of their way to be antagonistic and their settlements are against every law in the book and even if they weren't building them is certainly provocative and does nothing but hurt the peace process.

Harper's complete one sided support of Israel has effectively made Canada's Middle East policy completely irrelevant to the rest of the world. All that said, if I was forced to move to a Middle east country I would go straight to Israel and it wouldn't even be a conversation.

I actually agree with Harper's support of Israel but like all things he does he makes it completely ideological so no matter what they do, he will back them. It lessens our influence in the area , including in Israel itself, by representing us as nothing more than a yes-boy without being able to even make constructive criticism or even intelligent input.

Tfreder · #**1439** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 6:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.John

When you Factor in the people who don't vote, you could have that douchebag Harper running the country with the support of only 27% of the eligible voters

Well, the same could be said for a Mulcair or Trudeau win as well. They too would be able to form a government, yet not have a majority of the population voting for their party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migs

Are you denying that Mulcairs carbon footprint is atrocious for someone who claims the climate is in peril? I could go on & on.

Are you really suggesting that anyone who advocates for environmental issues must travel around on a horse and wagon?

How can you say that with a straight face when you have Harper advocating for a government without a deficit, yet spends tax payer money on campaigning? By your logic Harper must have a campaign free of spending or he's a bigot.

flar · #**1440** Posted **Oct 1, 2015, 6:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by artvandelay

Statements such as this point to your own ignorance moreso than that of Conservative voters.

Perhaps yourself, Migs, and O-Tac can start your own thread for memes, insults, and other childish nonsense while the rest of us continue with intelligent discussion in this thread.

Are we seriously suggesting there is no xenophobia, intolerance, or overinflated and irrational fears of things like terrorism or crime in this country? We are seriously fooling ourselves if we deny this. I don't think there is any question that the people subject to these tendencies exist and are overwhelmingly in the Conservative camp.

That doesn't mean everyone who supports the Conservatives is intolerant, racist or fearful. No serious person is going to argue that. But yes, they are there, and yes, they are a factor in this election.

An intelligent conversation needs to entertain the possibility that they do form part of the Conservative base, even if the Conservative Party doesn't explicitly court them or advocate their views.