[Halifax] The Maple | 72 m | 21 fl | Completed

[someone123]

That's the Skye site. United Gulf have said there might be another proposal but I haven't heard anything yet.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I just walked by there tonight and things are really progressing. Downtown is going to be amazing once all these developments are finished.

But does anyone know what's going on the vacant lot right across the street in the foreground above? There didn't seem to be much happening there but that lot has simply got to go.

The vacant lot is the United Gulf site where the Twisted Towers was proposed. It is a mystery as to why United Gulf bought it in the first place, and why they continue to hold on to it.

PS: I just noticed that someone123 already replied.

[Nouvellecosse]

Well I'm tired of waiting. I have a hard enough time waiting for things that are under construction to be finished so you can imagine how I feel about this 🞵🞵🞵🞵.

Even if it isn't something jaw-droppingly stunning, just get it done! A simple, 10 story glass office block or something.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Well I'm tired of waiting. I have a hard enough time waiting for things that are under construction to be finished so you can imagine how I feel about this 🞵🞵🞵🞵.

Even if it isn't something jaw-droppingly stunning, just get it done! A simple, 10 story glass office block or something.

I agree.

I think UG were never serious about building anything there.

Had one of the alternative serious bidders with a reputation for actually, you know, developing things, had won (Southwest, Chedrawe, etc), we'd likely already have something built there.

Once again, dumb/clueless HRM staffer (and Council) decisions.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I think UG were never serious about building anything there.

I am not so sure about this. A lot of effort went into preparing the proposals for this site. When the first version was proposed, some people claimed that the development agreement was just a ploy to inflate land values and that the owner would flip the property after approval. That never happened.

The original proposal predated HRM by Design and was delayed by many years, then the financial crisis hit and it became harder to finance projects. I can believe that this process made the site harder to develop. Other developments like the Alexander were also delayed during this period.

Skye is a bit of a different story since it clearly violated several planning rules. They should have just proposed something that complied with the rules. I believe the max roof elevation for the UG is about the same as the Maple, so something similar could be built there. A 20-storey residential building would be great on that site.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I liked this iteration. It was symbolic for the next wave of development and the subsequent proposal was contrived. I'm happier for the set of buildings we are getting (Alexander... almost unbelievable, The Maple, The Roy, the Nova Centre towers). That being said, the "twisted sisters" property is a major remaining hole downtown.

Credit: halps00 on Photobucket

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by someone123

I am not so sure about this. A lot of effort went into preparing the proposals for this site. When the first version was proposed, some people claimed that the development agreement was just a ploy to inflate land values and that the owner would flip the property after approval. That never happened.

The original proposal predated HRM by Design and was delayed by many years, then the financial crisis hit and it became harder to finance projects. I can believe that this process made the site harder to develop. Other developments like the Alexander were also delayed during this period.

Skye is a bit of a different story since it clearly violated several planning rules. They should have just proposed something that complied with the rules. I believe the max roof elevation for the UG is about the same as the Maple, so something similar could be built there. A 20-storey residential building would be great on that site.

You could be right, but I'm still not sure I buy the "financial crisis" explanation. The DA for Twisted Sister was approved in 2006, two years before the financial crisis. Nothing was built. And then it expired in 2010, years after the crisis, when other major developments have already begun in the city. Again, nothing built.

UG could have sought, and easily obtained, an extension of the Twisted Sister DA. Instead, they let it die. And then came back with the silly Skye Tower proposal which would have gutted HRMxD essentially a year after it was enacted. There is no way it was going to get approved.

Here's the last thing written on the site:

Skye developer weighing options for Halifax site, re-examining 'Twisted Sisters' plan
http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax/201...e-re-examining-twisted-sisters-plan.html

Saberi said he will submit something to City Hall once he’s decided on a course of action, suggesting it could be in the next year to 18 months.

That story was December 2013. We're now beyond 12-18th months. It's now been almost 22 months. And nothing.

[Jonovision]

I would have been happy if the original proposal had been built. And while nothing has been built, I can't say that I would have been happy if someone else had been sold the site. I think the debate that came from the Twisted Sisters proposal and approval was a major catalyst for HRM By Design and the ensuing wave of development we are now enjoying.

[someone123]

The original proposal was pretty interesting, and way better than anything else at that time. I liked it more than Skye. It's too bad it wasn't built.

[Jonovision]

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by someone123

The original proposal was pretty interesting, and way better than anything else at that time. I liked it more than Skye. It's too bad it wasn't built.

Don't understand why they litigated and battled for years to build it, and after they had approval, they just let is expire.

If they were serious about developing the site, I can't see them letting that just happen, given all the work they did to the DA.

I know the usual explanation about 2008 downturn; blah, blah, blah. But the city would have likely understood that reality, and granted an extension on the DA, like they do for most of these approvals.

It's much more efficient to simply grant an extension on an expiring DA than to restart the entire process.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I know the usual explanation about 2008 downturn; blah, blah, blah. But the city would have likely understood that reality, and granted an extension on the DA, like they do for most of these approvals.

I'm not sure about that. Public interest in this sort of thing was very different back then and council would have been under a lot of pressure not to grant an extension, there would have been a media shitstorm, etc. It was also a different and much larger council and HRMbD had only recently come into effect and hadn't produced much in terms of tangible results. People were generally very skeptical of conspicuous buildings and very pessimistic about architecture. Downtown was also a considerably less attractive place for prospective residents in many ways. Very gradually, a LOT has changed, but I think UG had their chance and blew it, unfortunately. They did that a bunch of times.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I'm not sure about that. Public interest in this sort of thing was very different back then and council would have been under a lot of pressure not to grant an extension, there would have been a media shitstorm, etc. It was also a different and much larger council and HRMbD had only recently come into effect and hadn't produced much in terms of tangible results. People were generally very skeptical of conspicuous buildings and very pessimistic about architecture. Downtown was also a considerably less attractive place for prospective residents in many ways. Very gradually, a LOT has changed, but I think UG had their chance and blew it, unfortunately. They did that a bunch of times.

For whatever people may think of the library in terms of cost, it has noticeably changed the tone of the conversation around architecture and whether downtown is "attractive". People I talk to who used to be, at best, ho hum about building conspicuous buildings in the downtown core are now excited by the idea. Having a building in your own city highlighted on places on CNN does a lot to change whether people view high impact high visibility architecture as a positive for the city or not. So is the nature of public opinion.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by beyeas

For whatever people may think of the library in terms of cost, it has noticeably changed the tone of the conversation around architecture and whether downtown is "attractive". People I talk to who used to be, at best, ho hum about building conspicuous buildings in the downtown core are now excited by the idea. Having a building in your own city highlighted on places on CNN does a lot to change whether people view high impact high visibility architecture as a positive for the city or not. So is the nature of public opinion.

I agree with this and the comments above about the Twisted Sisters. Whatever you think of the library (and the original Twisters proposal), they do (did) get people talking excitedly about architecture in Halifax. I personally find the library rather blah and don't really get what the fuss is about, but I appreciate that it is *something* different for our city, and has shown people that the world won't end because of one story turned at a funny angle, or a cantilevered story.

The Twisters were a similarly simple spin on architecture - nothing radical or too exciting, but a little different for a city like Halifax, and would have added some variety and interest to our skyline, and some impetus for more creative proposals. (I think we pretty much all agree that Skye was a farce - twin 48-story towers in a small city like Halifax is such a silly idea no one could ever take it seriously. And it was ugly to boot.)

I can't wait to see all the current and upcoming construction completed. Downtown is going to look very different!

[Jonovision]

[Jonovision]

This and The Roy should go up at relatively the same pace.
Could be a fun race to see which tops out first.

[counterfactual]

Southwest moving fast, as usual!

[someone123]

Too bad that ground floor isn't just a little bit taller. It looks okay but if the first floor ceilings were a meter or two taller it would be great. I think the height limits in Halifax create an incentive for developers to build low ceilings to fit in more units.

Nevertheless this is going to be a huge improvement. The part of Hollis around Province House is nice but this block is dreary.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by someone123

Too bad that ground floor isn't just a little bit taller. It looks okay but if the first floor ceilings were a meter or two taller it would be great. I think the height limits in Halifax create an incentive for developers to build low ceilings to fit in more units.

Nevertheless this is going to be a huge improvement. The part of Hollis around Province House is nice but this block is dreary.

Unfortunately, a lot of this area is dreary. Texpark site continues to be a horrible blight, that really shouldn't be, given it was sold by the city for the purposes of development...

[Hali87]

Untitled by Hali87, on Flickr