Phoenix Development News (3)

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

It depends on definition of "nicer".

Personally I don't see a place with granite countertops, a two car garage, and 20 tons of crushed gravel in the suburbs as nice, but I know that lots of people do.

My definition of a nice place is heavily weighted on its location. If the location bores me to death, it doesn't really matter what the inside of the home looks like, and therein lies why a lot of people are willing to pay to live in the city, they have a greater appreciation for location and realize that its a driving factor of "nice".

The majority of people here are that way but I don't think the majority of people in general are that way.

The majority of people would rather have their nice little house than sacrifice anything because they like cafe's or art studios.

That's why when the housing stock downtown expands over the next 24 months you'll see a lot more "regular" folks willing to live downtown.

[crwhiteinaz]

It would be so nice if we could get back to the goal of this forum and post about development news. The past 8 posts before this go great in the Phoenix General forum. Great if people want to argue what people will pay for rent, etc.

[biggus diggus]

I haven't observed any argumentative behavior, actually thought it was a pretty decent discussion regarding the rental market.

I guess I'll bow out of this one, sorry to upset anyone... It seems quite easy to do around here though, there's a lot of whiny princess attitude on this forum I've noticed. This is part of the reason I lurked for 5-6 years before deciding to join, maybe going back to lurking would be the safe bet.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by crwhiteinaz

It would be so nice if we could get back to the goal of this forum and post about development news. The past 8 posts before this go great in the Phoenix General forum. Great if people want to argue what people will pay for rent, etc.

It started from a discussion about whether there's demand for 3,000 unconstructed units at the rents they will be charging, so it's not really fair game for the other thread which tends to focus on the built environment.

Moreover, the planning of 3,000 units was more or less unknown to this place, so we are talking about development news.

[azsunsurfer]

So I was driving east on McDowell and as soon as I got to 5th Ave I noticed that construction was going on on the NW corner (those restaurant pads east of that florist building). Anyone know what's going in there? Looks like it has zero setbacks.

Also further east past the NE corner of McDowell and 3rd St. I can see some 3 story townhouses framed up. Anyone know about this project?!?

Thanks,

[azsunsurfer]

Also the "Alta Museum" or whatever it's called is in full swing with excavation work going on. No visible work on MUSE.

[MegaBass]

Phoenix-area canals to be transformed in ‘Grand Canalscape’ project

An effort is underway to transform Phoenix-area canals into great public areas.

The Grand Canalscape project would use art, landscaping and improved access to turn canals in the Valley into a continuous trail through Phoenix, Glendale and Tempe.

Supporters of the project say Valley canals have been a mess. “For years, we’ve turned our backs on canals in the Valley and treated them like alley ways,” said Diane Brossart, the President of the environmental group Arizona Forward. “We have more canals than Venice and Amsterdam combined. These iconic waterways have significant potential to become landmark amenities for the Valley.”

City of Phoenix Spokeswoman Monica Hernandez says two sections will be improved in the first phase of the project.

“We’re looking at the stretch from 15th Avenue to 16th Street on the west end, and then we’re looking at the Gateway north area between Garfield Street and Van Buren along the Grand Canal,” she said.

The city of Phoenix and Salt River Project are funding the $4.9 million project. Construction is set to start next summer. Hernandez said it could take several years to complete.

The city is looking for your input on the project. For more details, go to www.grandcanalscape.com.

[westbev93]

Re: 5th Ave and McDowell-I believe that is going to be a Pets Club retail store. I seem to recall that they are deviating slightly from the original site plan by adding some additional parking at the expense of a larger building footprint like what was approved previously by the City.

I'm sure I saw someone else comment here on it so perhaps they have more details as to precisely what the finished product will look like. There is basically no setback from what I can tell, but I don't think there will be any doors that open to the street. I believe the entrance will be off the parking lot. Hopefully they at least put windows on the street so it doesn't become like the dead walls at CVS on Central/McDowell.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

Also further east past the NE corner of McDowell and 3rd St. I can see some 3 story townhouses framed up. Anyone know about this project?!?

Thanks,

Is this what you're talking about?

http://www.coronadocommonsliving.com/

Somehow I don't remember seeing this in person nor reading about it in this thread. The google streetview camera from July shows they were fully framed at that time.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

So I was driving east on McDowell and as soon as I got to 5th Ave I noticed that construction was going on on the NW corner (those restaurant pads east of that florist building). Anyone know what's going in there? Looks like it has zero setbacks.

This is what I posted about that a while back:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=7028794#post7028794

We got the developer to agree to a decorative wall between the parking and the sidewalk along McDowell.

[mdpx]

More about 11 and 12 Capital Place.

Luxury Apartments Coming to Downtown

http://www.globest.com/news/12_1203/phoe...rtments-Coming-to-Downtown-361945-1.html

[PHXFlyer11]

Proxy 333

Proxy looks topped out with their wood framing. Not sure if there is one more level to go as the elevator shaft still rises above.

Portland

POTP is really flying now. Six stories up across the board. The hotel next door has scaffolding all around the exterior as well. That whole street looks impressive.

Edison

Sales office open. Backhoe on site tearing up the existing parking lot.

[PHX31]

/\ thanks for the update.


There are so many projects going on right now, I'm only talking about the ones actually under construction, I can't even keep up. I never thought that would be the case.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Obadno

There is always going to be sprawl as long as the population grows.

People in Wickenburg (if they even work) probably work in Prescott, from home or in the far NW valley like Surprise or Sun City. In general people wont travel more than about 45 minutes from home to work.

You cant prevent this some people will always want a house out in the boonies. The only mass developments you'll see is along the 303, that's okay, its already a forgone conclusion and despite it being sprawl the population increase is good for our state. (although many people from the east valley refuse to live in the west valley)

Why would I pay 1000$ a month for an apartment in central phoenix when I can keep paying 650 in my bigger nicer place in a nicer neighborhood while saving for a home I can purchase.

ADOT published a commuter rail study right around the start of the recession that proposed a rail line that would travel to Wickenburg. There are a number of people who live in Wickenburg and work in Phoenix proper. There really aren't too many professional jobs in Surprise or Sun City. There are quite a few people who live in Payson, Tonopah, Maricopa, Verde Valley, and Casa Grande who work in Phoenix. People live where they can afford. It's not always about "wants." I work with two women who live in San Tan Valley and work at the capitol complex. Their commute is about an hour and twenty minutes each way. They live in San Tan because of the low real estate cost.

Personally, I don't see much of a reason to live in Downtown Phoenix for $1000/month when you can live in another area for cheaper and save money. In most cities, people pay a premium for a reason. I think the premiums that are being charged on Downtown Phoenix apartments are beyond ludicrous. That's one of the reasons I no longer live there. There are so many nights when downtown is completely dead, many of the stores/restaurants only cater to working people and shutter in the middle of the afternoon or very early in the evening, and homeless people with mental illnesses cover the entire area. Why anyone would pay more for a smaller space and put up with that is very confusing to me.

[biggus diggus]

But a lot of it *is* about wants. There's a large segment of the population who want (claim they need) a 4 bedroom. House for two people, a garage for their 10 thousand dollar car, etc. To get these things they end up driving to San tan Valley so they can afford it. All they really need is a nice 1br apartment that's probably about the same rent, and that's where I start laughing because they drive an hour to live in a huge house and complain nothing near work is affordable, but that's all based on their unwillingness to live in an appropriately sized home.

[Uawilly]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

But a lot of it *is* about wants. There's a large segment of the population who want (claim they need) a 4 bedroom. House for two people, a garage for their 10 thousand dollar car, etc. To get these things they end up driving to San tan Valley so they can afford it. All they really need is a nice 1br apartment that's probably about the same rent, and that's where I start laughing because they drive an hour to live in a huge house and complain nothing near work is affordable, but that's all based on their unwillingness to live in an appropriately sized home.

That maybe true for some people. However some people have kids and want better schools and need more room. Others want the benefit of the tax deduction that comes with a mortgage plus their hopefully building equity. With a one bedroom parking maybe limited to one spot which also causes issues if its 2 people. On the flip side when people live far away they need to also factor in the additional gas money and wear and tear that comes with driving 40 miles to work. That can be additional $100+ per person.

I personally have things flipped around. I live in North Central Phoenix but commute to Warner and Rural. Its 21 miles but it is at least against traffic for most of it. When looking for a house I was willing to trade house size for location and being close to bars/restaurants. Every person's situation is different and thus is the reason why people will commute. Lastly dont forget but up until recently most of the central/downtown part of Phoenix was either too expensive or too shitty for most people. There really was no middle class area and even if you have a nice elementary school like mine (Madison) the high schools suck. I believe with the influx of young professional people and their corresponding money in the city's core what people think of the schools will be completely different in 10 years.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

But a lot of it *is* about wants. There's a large segment of the population who want (claim they need) a 4 bedroom. House for two people, a garage for their 10 thousand dollar car, etc. To get these things they end up driving to San tan Valley so they can afford it. All they really need is a nice 1br apartment that's probably about the same rent, and that's where I start laughing because they drive an hour to live in a huge house and complain nothing near work is affordable, but that's all based on their unwillingness to live in an appropriately sized home.

SO what if some people want what they want. I think you are throwing out quite a generalization about people who choose not to live in a downtown area, and who are you or anyone else to tell them what they really need? Personally, I'm happy that more people are choosing to live downtown - but let's not get confused. That too is a choice and likely not a need.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Freeway

ADOT published a commuter rail study right around the start of the recession that proposed a rail line that would travel to Wickenburg. There are a number of people who live in Wickenburg and work in Phoenix proper. There really aren't too many professional jobs in Surprise or Sun City. There are quite a few people who live in Payson, Tonopah, Maricopa, Verde Valley, and Casa Grande who work in Phoenix. People live where they can afford. It's not always about "wants." I work with two women who live in San Tan Valley and work at the capitol complex. Their commute is about an hour and twenty minutes each way. They live in San Tan because of the low real estate cost.

Personally, I don't see much of a reason to live in Downtown Phoenix for $1000/month when you can live in another area for cheaper and save money. In most cities, people pay a premium for a reason. I think the premiums that are being charged on Downtown Phoenix apartments are beyond ludicrous. That's one of the reasons I no longer live there. There are so many nights when downtown is completely dead, many of the stores/restaurants only cater to working people and shutter in the middle of the afternoon or very early in the evening, and homeless people with mental illnesses cover the entire area. Why anyone would pay more for a smaller space and put up with that is very confusing to me.

Of course there is always someone willing to drive 90 minutes one way

the vast majority of people do not. I took an entire class of this in college. Cities of all time periods tend to grow out to a 40-50 minute edge to center commute because that's about how far people will go.

you get some discrepancy because there are people who don't work, or work form home or will drive 200 miles a day as well as reality where not every job is in a downtown core.

but zoom out around major metros on google maps, you can fit basically every metro in the same viewing rectangle because they all generally reach a similar lateral size difference.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by azliam

SO what if some people want what they want. I think you are throwing out quite a generalization about people who choose not to live in a downtown area, and who are you or anyone else to tell them what they really need? Personally, I'm happy that more people are choosing to live downtown - but let's not get confused. That too is a choice and likely not a need.

You said that people live where they can afford which is what my comment was based upon, simply making the point that often times its not about that, it's about a desire to live in a big house that's largely unnecessary. That's the American way.

I'm not trying to argue with you, just expanding on the other side of your thought about why people choose to live where they live.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

You said that people live where they can afford which is what my comment was based upon, simply making the point that often times its not about that, it's about a desire to live in a big house that's largely unnecessary. That's the American way.

I'm not trying to argue with you, just expanding on the other side of your thought about why people choose to live where they live.

I think you're confusing me with someone else. In any case, I'm not a fan of mcmansions, but telling someone else what they own or where they live is largely unnecessary, is well, unnecessary in itself.