PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Kfmcshan]

Hopefully Bart isn't tying up all of his money in AC and still has cash available to complete his proposed projects in Philly:

Stockton to sell Showboat to Blatstein for $22 million

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20...stein_for__22_million.html#disqus_thread

[McBane]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

These days, they operate more like an upscale Macy's. It's the special touch of being a part of the Federated chain of stores, hq'd out of Ohio.

But so what? Right now Macy's is CC only department store. By getting a Bloomingdales, we would have two department stores. Plus, by our own admission, Bloomies is a nicer version of Macy's, so it's really like a double win. Your career certainly gives you a unique perspective, but for the average person, this is a huge plus. Having only one department in all of CC was always a bit of a sore point for me.

One other thing, a successful Bloomingdale's here could be a stepping stone up the department store ladder, so to speak. If they do well, maybe Nordstrom is next. One at a time, but all in all, this is positive momentum.

[PhiLaw]

There is more than 1 department store in center city. Century 21, Ross..

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Londonee

This is sound logic, but to play devil's advocate - our premier shopping street by international standards is woefully abrupt - basically 4 blocks from Broad to 18th. North Walnut along the square has Barney and Barnes/Noble but the rest of it, for some evil, ungodly reason are horrible banks (more Banks front Rittenhouse than restaurants - drives me crazy). Therefore terminating the shopping district. A Bloomingdales at 19th could be a catalyst to drive brands on the other side of the square - keep the shopping district rolling all the way to the river - may be even prompt the Zuritsky's to stop squatting on their 20th and Walnut maximum use surface parking lot.

Visionary! -- but I still think big retail belongs on Market.

[volguus zildrohar]

BTW, time to update the statuses of projects on Page 1. Evo has been done for some time now.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Ha ha. Thanks for the explanation macguyver.

I work in Operations for a major fashion company that sells to all the big department stores...so yeah...I've been in a lot of department stores.

Among fashion industry folks, Bloomingdales doesn't have the cache it does for the public. They're not particularly effective at moving through product and they're struggling right now.

I can tell you this is fact. For every item X that a fashion company Y makes, Nordstrom is likely to sell it 2X as fast, if not more. At the end of the day, that's all anyone who makes and sells product cares about. So you can get your hard on about Bloomingdales but it's not that great of a company. They don't command the primo location people are suggesting nor do they have the primo clientelle you think they do. These days, they operate more like an upscale Macy's. It's the special touch of being a part of the Federated chain of stores, hq'd out of Ohio.

I am not sure the point you're tying to make. I hardly have a 'hard-on' for Bloomingdales. But I shop there and don't really shop at Macy's. I could care less about cache or reputation in the fashion industry. What matters is that they sell some nice clothes (in my opinion, still generally much better than Macy's, any decline in stock or prestige notwithstanding). That's all the average shopper really cares about. The fact that it's not Neiman or Barney's is a good thing. Doesn't bankrupt you. I don't think Philly currently has the concentration of wealth to support a full-fledged Neiman Marcus or Barney's. Not even on Rittenhouse Square. Sorry. Anyway, this is getting far afield. I don't seen 1911 Walnut as an ideal location for Bloomindales (neither would I expect a Neiman, Barney's or any similarly priced large sized, full line department store to land there)

[acenturi]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

.....I don't think Philly currently has the concentration of wealth to support a full-fledged Neiman Marcus or Barney's. Not even on Rittenhouse Square....

Are you aware that there is a "full-fledged" Barney's at 1811 Walnut ?? Further, of the approx. 42 Neiman Marcus Stores only 5 or 6 are not in Malls, so Center City Philly is not that unique in not having one. There isn't even a Neiman Marcus in New York City !!

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

Originally Posted by acenturi

Are you aware that there is a "full-fledged" Barney's at 1811 Walnut ?? Further, of the approx. 42 Neiman Marcus Stores only 5 or 6 are not in Malls, so Center City Philly is not that unique in not having one. There isn't even a Neiman Marcus in New York City !!

Nope. There is no Barney's at 1811 Walnut. There is a Barney's Co-op. They are very different.

[Because racecar]

Originally Posted by BenKatzPhillytoParis

Nope. There is no Barney's at 1811 Walnut. There is a Barney's Co-op. They are very different.

The Barney's on Rittenhouse is a full fledged small footprint store (10k square feet). The Coop brand has been dissolved as of 2014. There is updated signage at the store although the former Coop plaquard has inexplicably not yet been replaced. As for why there is no Nieman's in NYC, it's because the Nieman Marcus group owns Bergdorf Goodman and they operate that store in Manhatten. Bloomingdales could go to Rittenhouse row, if they build a big enough space there, although I think Macy's should search for a new Macy's store (at least 300,000 sf) and give the Wannamaker bldg to Bloomingdales.

I also feel that CC could support other department stores if Philadelphia gets its tourist game together since retail not only wants to locate in wealthy enclaves but seek touristy areas with ongoing spending dollars.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Because racecar

The Barney's on Rittenhouse is a full fledged small footprint store (10k square feet). The Coop brand has been dissolved as of 2014. There is updated signage at the store although the former Coop plaquard has inexplicably not yet been replaced. As for why there is no Nieman's in NYC, it's because the Nieman Marcus group owns Bergdorf Goodman and they operate that store in Manhatten. Bloomingdales could go to Rittenhouse row, if they build a big enough space there, although I think Macy's should search for a new Macy's store (at least 300,000 sf) and give the Wannamaker bldg to Bloomingdales.

I also feel that CC could support other department stores if Philadelphia gets its tourist game together since retail not only wants to locate in wealthy enclaves but seek touristy areas with ongoing spending dollars.

I'm aware the co-op brand dissolved. I still don't think a full-size Barney's store with a complete selection could do well in the Philadelphia market, wherever it would be located. I do think there is market for a full size department store at the level of Bloomingdales.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

There is more than 1 department store in center city. Century 21, Ross..

And Nordstrom Rack!

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by BenKatzPhillytoParis

Nope. There is no Barney's at 1811 Walnut. There is a Barney's Co-op. They are very different.

As others have already said, it is no longer a Co-op. They converted in to a regular Barneys, albeit a smaller Barneys.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/style/Barneys-Co-op-to-end.html

[SJPhillyBoy]

Can someone direct to the Philadelphia Development Thread? I have seemed to have stumbled upon the taxes and department store comparison thread.

[SJPhillyBoy]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I have something special for y'all....

Cira II - 48 floors - 725 feet

Didn't believe it but it's happening. Brandywine is searching for tenants.

This is VERY special!
Is Cira II going to get it own thread in the proposals section? I think it should.

If Cira II happens, which I think it will, the 4 building Cira development will be an amazing addition to the skyline. Two 700+ footers across the Skuykill River from Center City in University City is amazing. 3 of 4 buildings down, one to go.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by SJPhillyBoy

This is VERY special!
Is Cira II going to get it own thread in the proposals section? I think it should.

If Cira II happens, which I think it will, the 4 building Cira development will be an amazing addition to the skyline. Two 700+ footers across the Skuykill River from Center City in University City is amazing. 3 of 4 buildings down, one to go.

There definitely will be a thread for it. We're just waiting for official word or an article to come out regarding the tower before creating a thread.

[Because racecar]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I'm aware the co-op brand dissolved. I still don't think a full-size Barney's store with a complete selection could do well in the Philadelphia market, wherever it would be located. I do think there is market for a full size department store at the level of Bloomingdales.

I agree with you in a sense. CC definitely has the wealth threshold to catch the glance of big department stores but without tourists constantly coming through, they won't consider it a worthwhile investment. And Barney's stores are usually about 100k sf so the one on Rittenhouse isn't so tiny. Also, Philadelphians should remember that they have their own homegrown high-end department store right on Chestnut. It's called Boyd's. And it's quite underrated if you ask this retailer.

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

Originally Posted by summersm343

As others have already said, it is no longer a Co-op. They converted in to a regular Barneys, albeit a smaller Barneys.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/style/Barneys-Co-op-to-end.html

Ah, interesting! Never knew. Sorry I sounded like an arrogant asshole in that case!

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I am not sure the point you're tying to make. I hardly have a 'hard-on' for Bloomingdales. But I shop there and don't really shop at Macy's. I could care less about cache or reputation in the fashion industry. What matters is that they sell some nice clothes (in my opinion, still generally much better than Macy's, any decline in stock or prestige notwithstanding). That's all the average shopper really cares about. The fact that it's not Neiman or Barney's is a good thing. Doesn't bankrupt you. I don't think Philly currently has the concentration of wealth to support a full-fledged Neiman Marcus or Barney's. Not even on Rittenhouse Square. Sorry. Anyway, this is getting far afield. I don't seen 1911 Walnut as an ideal location for Bloomindales (neither would I expect a Neiman, Barney's or any similarly priced large sized, full line department store to land there)

Not to start an argument, but I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

The average household income of Center City is now up to $107,000. The average household income of Rittenhouse Square is now $115,638. To give you an idea, this is more than or on par with the majority of the Main Line which has all of these stores in KOP. This is also more than or on par with the majority of San Francisco's core neighborhoods, which also has all of these stores Downtown. It also on par with the Near North Side in Chicago, which also has all of these stores downtown.

We can no longer say Center City doesn't have the cache of wealth which other cities have because it most certainly does. I think it's really just a combination of lazy commercial brokers looking to make a quick buck to the first tenant willing to pay and not shopping around, and outdated stereotypes on the city and not up-to-date information.

I mean, a Verizon store at 15th and Walnut in a brand new construction building? WTF? This should be a Gucci or Louis Vuitton, or at very least a Ted Baker or Tory Burch. F**cking Santander also outbid Marc Jacobs for the second retail spot in 1616 Walnut. Seriously?

What the city needs is better marketing. We need to get the word out that Center City is coming back to high-end retailers. Show them the wealth figures in comparison to other US cities, and show them the growing tourism numbers. On top of that, we need City Council members with a vision; one's that will place an overlay on Walnut Street banning banks and cell phone stores. We also need commercial brokers with a vision, who are willing to go out there and get the word out to the top retailers that Center City is hot and it's here.

No reason we should have lost Burberry because Michael Kors was willing to bid more when there are other availability on Walnut. No reason to lose Marc Jacobs to a bank. No reason to lease a prime new construction spot on Walnut to a cell phone store which has 40 other locations in the city. We should be getting Tory Burch, Ted Baker, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, David Yurman, Long Champ, etc. We should be getting KOP stores in Center City.

http://articles.philly.com/2015-04-09/bu...-city-district-household-income-old-city

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Not to start an argument, but I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

The average household income of Center City is now up to $107,000. The average household income of Rittenhouse Square is now $115,638. To give you an idea, this is more than or on par with the majority of the Main Line which has all of these stores in KOP. This is also more than or on par with the majority of San Francisco's core neighborhoods, which also has all of these stores Downtown. It also on par with the Near North Side in Chicago, which also has all of these stores downtown.

We can no longer say Center City doesn't have the cache of wealth which other cities have because it most certainly does. I think it's really just a combination of lazy commercial brokers looking to make a quick buck to the first tenant willing to pay and not shopping around, and outdated stereotypes on the city and not up-to-date information.

I mean, a Verizon store at 15th and Walnut in a brand new construction building? WTF? This should be a Gucci or Louis Vuitton, or at very least a Ted Baker or Tory Burch. F**cking Santander also outbid Marc Jacobs for the second retail spot in 1616 Walnut. Seriously?

What the city needs is better marketing. We need to get the word out that Center City is coming back to high-end retailers. Show them the wealth figures in comparison to other US cities, and show them the growing tourism numbers. On top of that, we need City Council members with a vision; one's that will place an overlay on Walnut Street banning banks and cell phone stores. We also need commercial brokers with a vision, who are willing to go out there and get the word out to the top retailers that Center City is hot and it's here.

No reason we should have lost Burberry because Michael Kors was willing to bid more when there are other availability on Walnut. No reason to lose Marc Jacobs to a bank. No reason to lease a prime new construction spot on Walnut to a cell phone store which has 40 other locations in the city. We should be getting Tory Burch, Ted Baker, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, David Yurman, Long Champ, etc. We should be getting KOP stores in Center City.

http://articles.philly.com/2015-04-09/bu...-city-district-household-income-old-city

No need for an argument. I agree we should be attracting better stores when we are. I don't agree the average income or number of high earners is on par with most other cities that have department stores of the caliber we've been discussing. Or that wealth is center city is on par with the Philadelphia suburbs. Median income for a family in Gladwyne at last check was $200,000 and Villanova and Bryn Mawr not far from that (Wikipedia). Some publications have pegged average household income in Gladwyne at $331,840, though I'm not sure that's accurate. http://patch.com/pennsylvania/brynmawr/gladwyne-identified-as-no-7-richest-zip-code-in-u-s

It's been nice to see Center City crack the 6 figure mark for average income. But $107,000 is not really that much money and not enough to be spending much disposable income on the clothes sold ad Barney's and Neiman Marcus (I realize this is only an average and lower income people balance those earning much more than this).

Anyway, back to construction discussions for me, I guess.

[summersm343]

Outta Here; thank you for contributing on this board and I'm sure you spent a long time on that post but I am sorry I had to delete it since the post was boarding City V. City territory and did not involve Philadelphia for comparison sake.

Sorry again and thank you for contributing!