Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2 - Page 167

MountainView · #**3321** Posted **Sep 16, 2015, 5:50 PM**

Canadian Tire Centre has been updating its inside over the summer to add a new club seating area. The upgrades have cost $15M, removed 18 suites and eight rows of seats in front of them, lowered seating capacity to 18,694 from 19,153. The 'Victory Suites' at $10,000 are already soldout, Lodge Seating 98% pre-sold and Luxe Seating is 75% sold. They are all inclusive (food, beverage, valet/VIP parking, private entrance.)

Here is a link to a couple of articles if interested (with pictures):
Senators detail major upgrade
Canadian Tire Centre changes

A few of the pictures:

Here it looks as if they will display a vehicle in the 200 level:

Oilkountry · #**3322** Posted **Sep 16, 2015, 11:50 PM**

Not trying to steal the CTC's thunder but

Oilkountry · #**3323** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 12:05 AM**

I'm sorry but this is really stupid.....
I don't even know where to start... Why would they put a truck on the second level? That should have been behind the glass on the lower level not only for aesthetics (it looks stupid in general this isn't russia) but at least it would have made sense which brings me to my next point. Why would Chrysler pay to have a vehicle out of the view of the cameras? Also the location of the loge seats is indescribably just stupid....It looks SO dumb Why would you take out lower bowl seats on the corner for that? why not the second level side line or at least match it on the other corner OMFG that looks so stupid. I like the loge seating idea I really do. And the CTC should be less than 18,000 seats for ottawa I think they should add more loge areas but the location Should be better thought out.... If they needed to shed suites and gain loge seats they should have at least made it look decent. Instead of just randomly placing them in a corner and finishing them...WHITE... OF ALL COLOURS why WHITE?. And WTF is wit that red and black seat pattern? It looks so cheap and tacky. And please spare me the "it looks great" speeches ugly is ugly and that is hideous I know how you all love to bond by collectively disagreeing with me just for fun.

***update** I need to open my eyes I didnt notice they did do this on the other corner whoops.

J.OT13 · #**3324** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 12:36 AM**

I assume space was a big factor in wear they decided to build "Club Bell". You're pretty limited in where you can plant this in a 20 year old arena. I must admit that the car platforms look kind of dumb, with a row of seats at the bottom. Why would Chrysler pay if their out of the camera's view? Well, they are still within sight of 18,694 people per night, for at lest 41 nights a year assuming they don't take them out during concerts and other events. The other couple million watching the game on TV get blasted with commercials.

We also have to remember that this isn't modernization for the sake of modernization. They are testing out new ideas to implement into a new downtown arena 5-10 years down the road. It doesn't have to make 100% sense, since it's only "temporary".

Oilkountry · #**3325** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 1:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I assume space was a big factor in wear they decided to build "Club Bell". You're pretty limited in where you can plant this in a 20 year old arena. I must admit that the car platforms look kind of dumb, with a row of seats at the bottom. Why would Chrysler pay if their out of the camera's view? Well, they are still within sight of 18,694 people per night, for at lest 41 nights a year assuming they don't take them out during concerts and other events. The other couple million watching the game on TV get blasted with commercials.

We also have to remember that this isn't modernization for the sake of modernization. They are testing out new ideas to implement into a new downtown arena 5-10 years down the road. It doesn't have to make 100% sense, since it's only "temporary".

Come on man..The Oilers have a better chance of replacing Rogers place in the next 5 years, than Ottawa does replacing the CTC in the next 25 if public funds (beyond the city) are involved And they know that. They wouldn't be tossing around 15M for the sake of "planning" for something unless they knew they were building an arena. The sens don't have money to toss around like that. it's an investment, those were empty suites and now that space is making money. And the Sens are that much closer to creating demand by shedding seats that were over supplied in such a small market. Honestly they sold them so quickly I wouldn't be surprised if they build more next season. However they are most likley stuck with this arena for the next 20+ years so if you're gonna do it do it right

J.OT13 · #**3326** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 1:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Come on man..The Oilers have a better chance of replacing Rogers place in the next 5 years, than Ottawa does replacing the CTC in the next 25 if public funds (beyond the city) are involved And they know that. They wouldn't be tossing around 15M for the sake of "planning" for something unless they knew they were building an arena. The sens don't have money to toss around like that. At 10k a loge seat it's an investment, those were empty suites and now that space is making money. And the Sens are that much closer to creating demand by shedding seats that were over supplied in such a small market. Honestly they sold them so quickly I wouldn't be surprised if they build more next season. However they are most likley stuck with this arena for the next 20+ years so if you're gonna do it do it right

Well yes, it doubles as an investment to make more money and they will achieve that objective. But the new arena isn't a pie in the sky idea. They were selected as one of the short listed for the RFP and they will put in a final proposal by the December 15 deadline to develop Lebreton Flats.

If they win the proposal, they, along with their partners, one of which is Windmill Development, building the billion dollar Zibi Project (http://www.zibi.ca/) a stone's throw away, will be able to go through with a new arena and surrounding arena district without a cent from any level of government (other than land).

Oilkountry · #**3327** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 1:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Well yes, it doubles as an investment to make more money and they will achieve that objective. But the new arena isn't a pie in the sky idea. They were selected as one of the short listed for the RFP and they will put in a final proposal by the December 15 deadline to develop Lebreton Flats.

If they win the proposal, they, along with their partners, one of which is Windmill Development, building the billion dollar Zibi Project (http://www.zibi.ca/) a stone's throw away, will be able to go through with a new arena and surrounding arena district without a cent from any level of government (other than land).

You make it sound like if they win the proposal the arena is free. They still have to come up with 450M.

snowmobile · #**3328** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 1:39 AM**

So the Argos game on the 6th will now be a home game for Ottawa. Disrespectful the fans of the argos that's for sure. Obviously they will make more $ playing in Ottawa with say 15,000 in attendance then they would with 5000 at Varsity Stadium but they are really making it hard on the fans.

J.OT13 · #**3329** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 1:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

You make it sound like if they win the proposal the arena is free. They still have to come up with 450M.

They don't have to come up with 450 million cash right off the bat. If they win the competition, they plan on starting construction on the arena within 5 to 7 years. That gives them time to raise some money by selling some condos and securing retail and office tenants. The sale of the current arena alone will bring in 100-150 million. The rest could be split between the partners through existing funds and loans.

If the Oilers and Flames can do it, there is no reason why the Sens can't do the same. And if they can achieve it on their own instead of depending on government like every other NHL team has done (excluding a few too big to fail teams), as they did when they built the current arena 20 years ago, all the power to them.

esquire · #**3330** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 2:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I'm sorry but this is really stupid.....
I don't even know where to start... Why would they put a truck on the second level? That should have been behind the glass on the lower level not only for aesthetics (it looks stupid in general this isn't russia) but at least it would have made sense which brings me to my next point. Why would Chrysler pay to have a vehicle out of the view of the cameras? Also the location of the loge seats is indescribably just stupid....It looks SO dumb Why would you take out lower bowl seats on the corner for that? why not the second level side line or at least match it on the other corner OMFG that looks so stupid.

Agreed on all counts about how dumb this particular feature looks (I'm neutral on the rest), but it seems pretty clear to me that it's much more about reducing capacity than about selling cars. Creating scarcity is the name of the game, and I'm sure the Sens owners wish they had a couple thousand fewer regular seats to worry about selling... much more efficient to have additional loges or whatever that you just sell to companies for the whole season at a premium price.

osmo · #**3331** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 2:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowmobile

So the Argos game on the 6th will now be a home game for Ottawa. Disrespectful the fans of the argos that's for sure. Obviously they will make more $ playing in Ottawa with say 15,000 in attendance then they would with 5000 at Varsity Stadium but they are really making it hard on the fans.

Not sure how those numbers work. Argos get rent back from RC and then go rent TD. They get gates.. or don't they?

If they did then essentially the Argos would make more money just playing on the road....

Has to be some revenue split for this game. Maybe Ottawa gets beer, food, parking and seats for season ticket holders while Argos get gates, who knows, but I am curious.

esquire · #**3332** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 3:00 PM**

^ Hard to tell how much the Argos stand to gain/lose because you'd need a lot of info to make that call. But they certainly do get to keep the gate as would a promoter who rents TD Place to stage a concert or whatever.

In the end I doubt this will have any significant impact on the Argos' books (the increased revenue from a game in Ottawa could be offset by the expense of operating on the road), but it will have quite a reputational impact.

The Argos are really going to have to make a splash next season to distance themselves from the Braley regime... ever since winning the cup in 2012 the team has basically been on life support with this season being the worst in post-WWII team history. It's amazing that the team has done as well as it has on the field considering all of this.

tomthumb2 · #**3333** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 3:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Hard to tell how much the Argos stand to gain/lose because you'd need a lot of info to make that call. But they certainly do get to keep the gate as would a promoter who rents TD Place to stage a concert or whatever.

In the end I doubt this will have any significant impact on the Argos' books (the increased revenue from a game in Ottawa could be offset by the expense of operating on the road), but it will have quite a reputational impact.

The Argos are really going to have to make a splash next season to distance themselves from the Braley regime... ever since winning the cup in 2012 the team has basically been on life support with this season being the worst in post-WWII team history. It's amazing that the team has done as well as it has on the field considering all of this.

I agree - it can't be easy playing for or being an employee of this team. It was a bush league operation under Braley and I hope these new guys do a better job but I'm not super optimistic. They've had so many owners over the past few decades and no one has been able to make it work. Let's face it, Toronto just doesn't give a rats ass about the CFL and only the NFL will do. I give them 2 or 3 years at BMO with some decent crowds before it starts to fall again and then Bell will probably be looking to sell them yet again. I know this sounds quite sour but does anyone really think they have a chance?

esquire · #**3334** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 3:55 PM**

^ At one point people would have said the exact same thing about Montreal. The Als were even more hopeless than the Argos ever were, but they have since carved out a nice niche for themselves in the sports scene there.

SkahHigh · #**3335** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 4:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ At one point people would have said the exact same thing about Montreal. The Als were even more hopeless than the Argos ever were, but they have since carved out a nice niche for themselves in the sports scene there.

A nice, vibrant, welcoming venue can indeed turn a franchise around. I bet if you ask a lot of Argos fans, they don't even want to go see a game at the Skydome.

esquire · #**3336** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 4:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

A nice, vibrant, welcoming venue can indeed turn a franchise around. I bet if you ask a lot of Argos fans, they don't even want to go see a game at the Skydome.

Yup. I'm guessing the size of the Argos and Als fanbases are not that wildly different. It's just that the Als stadium experience is pleasant so people actually want to go to the games (which helps to draw in new fans), while Argo fans tend to just stay at home.

Obviously having a better environment for games will only help the Argos...

Acajack · #**3337** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 4:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Yup. I'm guessing the size of the Argos and Als fanbases are not that wildly different. It's just that the Als stadium experience is pleasant so people actually want to go to the games (which helps to draw in new fans), while Argo fans tend to just stay at home.

Obviously having a better environment for games will only help the Argos...

Well, if it's any indication, the Alouettes have over 200,000 likes on Facebook. About the same as L'Impact and Toronto FC have. The Argonauts have under 45,000.

Horus · #**3338** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 5:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

The Argos are really going to have to make a splash next season to distance themselves from the Braley regime... ever since winning the cup in 2012 the team has basically been on life support with this season being the worst in post-WWII team history. It's amazing that the team has done as well as it has on the field considering all of this.

I would expect that would be the case. The Argos are truly in a lame-duck position this year as ownership transfers from Braley to the MLSE subset. This rescheduling of the Oct 6th home date speaks volumes to me in the unwillingness of anybody to spend money on this team this season. I refuse to believe that there was not a compromise to be made to enable the Argos to play these home dates. IMO, this was a problem that could have been solved with enough effort (read: money) but neither Braley, nor SkyDome (via Rogers) was willing to pony up the cash to make it happen - perhaps justifiably so.

I'd anticipate a major marketing effort around the Argos move to BMO next season (Marketing being another area that was absolutely eviscerated by Braley in the past season and a half). I certainly believe the MLSE marketing machine can turn Argo games into must-attend events, much as they have done with TFC

Horus · #**3339** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 5:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Yup. I'm guessing the size of the Argos and Als fanbases are not that wildly different. It's just that the Als stadium experience is pleasant so people actually want to go to the games (which helps to draw in new fans), while Argo fans tend to just stay at home.

Obviously having a better environment for games will only help the Argos...

Not just environment, but schedule too. The Argos have been getting increasingly poor home game schedules for the past decade, ranging from the ridiculous mid-week (Tuesday, Wednesday nights) games to the more recent, heavily back-loaded home schedule (disproportionate number of October and November home games).

That's one issue that should be resolved by the move BMO - there are not as many date conflicts with TFC who play a much lighter schedule than MLB.

If you're going to a game and worrying about how long it will take to get home so you can work the next day (mid-week games) or having to make all of your plans to go to a game every weekend in October, it will certainly deter a percentage of fans who might otherwise want to go to every game.

Acajack · #**3340** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 5:18 PM**

Regarding Braley, let's not be too harsh. He basically saved the Argos by pumping tons of money into them, knowing full well he'd never make any of it back.