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  #3841  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2015, 3:04 PM
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So, the biggest chain of sports bars in Quebec, which has over 50 locations, is planning a rebranding and will also be expanding including locations outside Quebec in Ottawa and Edmundston, NB. They will also be opening a new location right next to the Centre Vidéotron in Quebec City.

The president of the company in an interview said something like: "This is an exciting time for sports. With the Habs as always, and boxing is also very popular these days, L'Impact with the Drogba effect and a new NHL team that's coming to Quebec City..."

Is he in the know or just assuming?
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  #3842  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2015, 3:08 PM
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I think that probably had more to do with the city itself than with the event or how it was administered. I'm sure you know that most big cities in the southern half of the US have little ambience and street presence of any kind.
Yeah, the last part does. But the first part pertains to the false promises the Atlanta team made that they totally cheaped out on after they were awarded the bid. Now, the IOC contractually requires winning bids to fulfil their commitments. As crooked as the IOC is, the Atlanta bid was pretty crooked itself and it affected the Olympic brand for many. Anyway, I like Atlanta overall, fantastic place to visit even without the Olympics if you don't mind driving everywhere.
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  #3843  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2015, 4:58 PM
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"Ambiance" isn't quantifiable, this is just your opinion. It is more obvious that the model the IOC has had to back a way from now was more damaging.

Atlanta used students dorms to house athletes and used all of their Colleges for most of the venues. Call it cheap, but I call it smart. It was smart as the alternative was Athens and their mess.

The Olympics isn't some practice in public realm and city planning, it is a massive corporate, branding, sports, event, that is filed by TV rights abs people buy tickets for events. All they want are tickets sold and logistics to run smooth, the IOC does not care if the city has no "ambience". I hear Beijing was such a vibrant place during their games.. yeah right.

Athens was a mess, which built everything new and vastly overspent with many projects not being completed on time. that is what the IOC "reforms" birthed was the gong shows of Athens and Beijing which IMO ruined the IOC business model more as JT has scared away cities to bid (especially now they can't bride after SLC ruined the waters).
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  #3844  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2015, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
"Ambiance" isn't quantifiable, this is just your opinion. It is more obvious that the model the IOC has had to back a way from now was more damaging.

Atlanta used students dorms to house athletes and used all of their Colleges for most of the venues. Call it cheap, but I call it smart. It was smart as the alternative was Athens and their mess.

The Olympics isn't some practice in public realm and city planning, it is a massive corporate, branding, sports, event, that is filed by TV rights abs people buy tickets for events. All they want are tickets sold and logistics to run smooth, the IOC does not care if the city has no "ambience". I hear Beijing was such a vibrant place during their games.. yeah right.

Athens was a mess, which built everything new and vastly overspent with many projects not being completed on time. that is what the IOC "reforms" birthed was the gong shows of Athens and Beijing which IMO ruined the IOC business model more as JT has scared away cities to bid (especially now they can't bride after SLC ruined the waters).
Listen man, ambience wasn't my opinion, I have no Olympic reference to compare Atlanta to. If you read my post you would have seen I was referring to the opinions of people in the Olympic community (I spend quite a bit of time on the various Olympic discussion forums learning from people who work in that community), even senior executives at the IOC have publicly made disparaging statements regarding the quality of the Atlanta games organization. Google is your friend if you don't believe me.
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  #3845  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2015, 6:11 PM
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Maybe the Atlanta ambience sucked, but at least they didn't have to engage in massive subsidies and bailouts for the games. (Left them more money to build new stadiums for the Braves and Falcons, I guess...)

The Olympic beast is getting out of hand, with the IOC making ridiculous demands and governments indulging them. It's time to rein it in and make it a little more like the Pan Am Games in terms of size and scale.
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  #3846  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2015, 6:24 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
The Olympic beast is getting out of hand, with the IOC making ridiculous demands and governments indulging them.
This has been slowly winding down over the past decade as more and more countries pull out of hosting. Beijing and Tokyo were recently chosen because they already have the infrastructure in place and only have to build minimal facilities compared to the Olympics of the 90s/00s. The IOC is (albeit slowly) getting its act together.

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It's time to rein it in and make it a little more like the Pan Am Games in terms of size and scale.
Not really. The size of the games isn't the problem; the problem lies in how that size is utilized (infrastructure, stadiums, locations, etc.).

Unless of course you mean getting rid of speedwalking because absolutely we should.
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  #3847  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2015, 6:29 PM
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Unless of course you mean getting rid of speedwalking because absolutely we should.
But the athletes look so cool while doing it!
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  #3848  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2015, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Not really. The size of the games isn't the problem; the problem lies in how that size is utilized (infrastructure, stadiums, locations, etc.).

Unless of course you mean getting rid of speedwalking because absolutely we should.
I don't mean size as in number of athletes and events, I mean size in a broader sense, i.e. the games budget, the commitment to building sports and related infrastructure and other such expenses.

Just because it has the Olympic rings doesn't mean at governments should be required to build all-new everything to host it.
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  #3849  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2015, 7:05 PM
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I think its a matter of where you put it. Suburban wasteland of Atlanta versus Barcelona which had a modest footprint in a very tight city with a improved waterfront all will contrast differently.

The current trends of the "zones" does not really lend itself to attempting to do what Barcelona did, but also keeps you from doing what Atlanta did in busing people out to random campuses for events.

The zones require a massive footprint in land development but it keeps security costs down as you only have to lock down parcels compared to more spread out venues that will end up bloating your budget.

Supposedly LA is lucking out as the old Olympic stadium is going to be renovated anyway by USC and they would just have to partner on to that, plus if LA is putting in the bid then the NFL will leech onto a stadium plan also.

But all is not lost. This may work out best as now Canada can focus on its World Cup bid which I think it will win and then a stadium will be in place in Toronto for a Olympic bid.
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  #3850  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2015, 7:08 PM
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The Sydney games are the ones by which all others are measured. Considered by most to be the best, most organized games of all time. Capacity crowds at every venue; fantastic opening and closing ceremonies; impressive showing by the host country; logistics were excellent; limited commercialization; little to no pollution concerns; all or nearly all Olympic venues are in use to this day. Those Olympics checked off all the boxes. Nothing has compared since.
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  #3851  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2015, 7:42 PM
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Here's a question im not really familiar with the summer Olympics

What existing infrastructure would TO utilize with the bid? ACC? Rogers Centre? BMO?

and what would have to be built?
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  #3852  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2015, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
I think its a matter of where you put it. Suburban wasteland of Atlanta versus Barcelona which had a modest footprint in a very tight city with a improved waterfront all will contrast differently.

The current trends of the "zones" does not really lend itself to attempting to do what Barcelona did, but also keeps you from doing what Atlanta did in busing people out to random campuses for events.

The zones require a massive footprint in land development but it keeps security costs down as you only have to lock down parcels compared to more spread out venues that will end up bloating your budget.

Supposedly LA is lucking out as the old Olympic stadium is going to be renovated anyway by USC and they would just have to partner on to that, plus if LA is putting in the bid then the NFL will leech onto a stadium plan also.

But all is not lost. This may work out best as now Canada can focus on its World Cup bid which I think it will win and then a stadium will be in place in Toronto for a Olympic bid.
Where does Montreal fall in a world cup Bid if Toronto is the final match city?

Surely an expanded BMO would be Toronto's host venue while the big O would be The final match Venue. I just can't see Saputo being put on such a big stage while Canada's national soccer Stadium gets over shadowed by an empty "potential" NFL stadium. Especially not if federal funding is involved I'm sure montreal would make a better case with the big O. However if TFC keeps growing in popularity they could outgrow BMO, What a perfect time for MLSE to partner up and build the Taj Mahal of Soccer stadiums. Argos get BMO...win win..win really

A world cup bid in Canada would be interesting but costly

-Commonwealth
-Td
-THF
-IGF
-Mosiac
-New Calgary stadium
-BC place
-BMO
-Big-O

-Great time for Halifax to seek federal funding for a new CFL stadium. legacy CFL team #1

-Can't see QC sitting back passing up on participation, If a 25,000 seat Building gets built that's Legacy CFL team #2

-Moncton. Renovate Moncton stadium to a Mens World cup level. It's not gonna see any big matches but... huge for Moncton

That's 12 host cities in Canada. And will keep The existing Stadiums in this country fresh. By then most of today's stadiums will need face lifts anyway. No money wasted like we have seen in past world cups and Olympics in other host cities around the globe (Brazil,Athens,Sochi ect)

Last edited by Oilkountry; Sep 15, 2015 at 8:45 PM.
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  #3853  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
I think its a matter of where you put it. Suburban wasteland of Atlanta versus Barcelona which had a modest footprint in a very tight city with a improved waterfront all will contrast differently.

The current trends of the "zones" does not really lend itself to attempting to do what Barcelona did, but also keeps you from doing what Atlanta did in busing people out to random campuses for events.

The zones require a massive footprint in land development but it keeps security costs down as you only have to lock down parcels compared to more spread out venues that will end up bloating your budget.

Supposedly LA is lucking out as the old Olympic stadium is going to be renovated anyway by USC and they would just have to partner on to that, plus if LA is putting in the bid then the NFL will leech onto a stadium plan also.

But all is not lost. This may work out best as now Canada can focus on its World Cup bid which I think it will win and then a stadium will be in place in Toronto for a Olympic bid.
Seriously? A Men's World Cup Bid? This from a country that is so cheap and cares so little about soccer that we wouldn't even pay a few million to have the women play on grass? Ha! Ha! You are so funny. Keep on dreaming Alice, Wonderland is just down the road. We will never spend the billions needed to host a soccer tournament. This is a dream of only a few soccer fans and will never happen, thank God.
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  #3854  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 1:55 AM
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Seriously? A Men's World Cup Bid? This from a country that is so cheap and cares so little about soccer that we wouldn't even pay a few million to have the women play on grass? Ha! Ha! You are so funny. Keep on dreaming Alice, Wonderland is just down the road. We will never spend the billions needed to host a soccer tournament. This is a dream of only a few soccer fans and will never happen, thank God.
We do have 3 teams in MLS. This will help grow the sport in Canada, and ijn time result in a Canadian World Cup team. It took about 10 years of the Whitecaps being in the old NASL that resulted in a bunch of players from BC going to the 86 World Cup. Using that time frame, expect a Canada WC appearance in '22.

Once we string together some WC appearances, there will no doubt be talk of hosting a World Cup. I predict the 2034 World Cup will go to Canada.
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  #3855  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 4:03 AM
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Surely an expanded BMO would be Toronto's host venue while the big O would be The final match Venue....
I'm sure montreal would make a better case with the big O.
Absolutely not. Never. No please.

Previous five World Cup Final venues, with attendance, built, and renovated:
2014: Estadio do Maracana (74,738) (1948) (2013)
2010: Soccer City (84,490) (2009)
2006: Olympiastadion (69,000) (1936) (2006)
2002: Yokohama Stadium (69,029) (1998)
1998: Stade de France (80,000) (1998)

Compare this to the Big O..
XXXX: Olympic Stadium (~60,000) (1976)

Olympic Stadium would need massive, massive renovations; the cost of which would be the equivalent of a stadium that deserves to be representing a country at the World Cup in the 21st century.

Best bet for a World Cup bid in Canada is to have a new 60,000/70,000 seat stadium in Toronto for Canada Men's/Women's national teams, TFC, exhibition matches, concerts, and other events (outdoor Leafs). The one thing this country lacks is a true, proper, National Stadium. Otherwise FIFA aren't going to sniff around too much for a bunch of 35-50K stadiums.
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  #3856  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 4:43 AM
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^ Olympic Stadium can be temporarily enlarged to accommodate about 70,000 fans, putting it well within the range you posted above. I can't imagine that any updates and renovations would even come close to the cost of a new build.
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  #3857  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Absolutely not. Never. No please.

Previous five World Cup Final venues, with attendance, built, and renovated:
2014: Estadio do Maracana (74,738) (1948) (2013)
2010: Soccer City (84,490) (2009)
2006: Olympiastadion (69,000) (1936) (2006)
2002: Yokohama Stadium (69,029) (1998)
1998: Stade de France (80,000) (1998)

Compare this to the Big O..
XXXX: Olympic Stadium (~60,000) (1976)

Olympic Stadium would need massive, massive renovations; the cost of which would be the equivalent of a stadium that deserves to be representing a country at the World Cup in the 21st century.

Best bet for a World Cup bid in Canada is to have a new 60,000/70,000 seat stadium in Toronto for Canada Men's/Women's national teams, TFC, exhibition matches, concerts, and other events (outdoor Leafs). The one thing this country lacks is a true, proper, National Stadium. Otherwise FIFA aren't going to sniff around too much for a bunch of 35-50K stadiums.
The big O can be renovated to have 80,000 seats. Remember the attendance record is 76,433 for the 1976 opening and closing ceremonies and that's WITH the track field.

I agree it would cost a LOT but a men World Cup ain't cheap. We would also have approximately 8-10 years from the moment the announcement is made to the actual start of the World Cup.

This is just fantasy though, even if the big O was renovated to 80k, Canada would need to build several other stadiums because the CFL sized stadiums would likely not be enough.
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  #3858  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2015, 1:59 AM
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The big O can be renovated to have 80,000 seats. Remember the attendance record is 76,433 for the 1976 opening and closing ceremonies and that's WITH the track field.

I agree it would cost a LOT but a men World Cup ain't cheap. We would also have approximately 8-10 years from the moment the announcement is made to the actual start of the World Cup.

This is just fantasy though, even if the big O was renovated to 80k, Canada would need to build several other stadiums because the CFL sized stadiums would likely not be enough.
Oh is that right? pretty sure 8 of Brazil's stadiums were under 45,000 seats, 5 of those 8 being under 40,000 seats. We have CFL stadiums in this country able to expand to that 40,000 mark no problem

We also have 4 Stadiums in this country ready to accommodate big crowds over 50k and depending on what Calgary does maybe 5. Which would match what Brazil brought to the table. and way more than what russia is providing Good try though FIFA requires 8 host cities Technically we could do it in 2026 no problem for under a billion in Stadium infrastructure costs.



TD PLACE would need 20M in upgrades Nothing too fancy. New scoreboard, paint ect. Some work on the endzones for temp seating at the same time you would want to have something permanent in place for the Redblacks if it wasn't done by then...its all about responsible legacy spending in Canada

THF 10-20M same thing Not much to be said the stadium would Need a facelift (scoreboard, paint nothing to crazy)

BMO Hard to say But Im going to peg it around the same price point 10-20M

IGF and mosiac again temp seats and updated technology nothing too over the top these venues would still be fairly new

BC place. 30M The cloth on the roof will be discoloured may be time to replace it, Jumbotron will be outdated. but either than that it's a ready to go venue

New Calgary stadium wont need much as it will be barley approaching its second decade

Commonwealth 100M- 250M...this is where it gets interesting. If this is 2030... Commonwealth is gonna be getting up there, if Edmonton has the chance to acquire a new stadium, will they do it instead of just renovating commonwealth that will no doubt need it at this point?. regardless this is the time for Edmonton to dig down that field and close in those end zones. I don't feel like the womans world cup configuration will make the cut. It looked good but I just cant see it happening 15 years later in the mens. 100M renovation or a new 250M stadium

Then we have the BIG O....Let's not get started on this. I can't stand the thought of a reno to the big O That will serve no purpose in Montreal. They Should build a brand new 30,000 seat stadium in Montreal instead, leave the roof open in the BIG O,slap some new seats in it new jumbtron some paint and done. 30M max Montreal should focus on a baseball stadium. Give the final match to Toronto and between the CSA,MLSE,T.O.,Ontario and the federal government build a 70,000 Soccer Stadium and design it to be torn down to 40,000 seats for TFC after the fact. (this wont happen) but still the big O will be the only non legacy dollars that canada will spend on WC . That would be 9 cities I feel like Halifax would take get one built as well. 9-10 Canadian cities.

Last edited by Oilkountry; Sep 20, 2015 at 3:23 AM.
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  #3859  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2015, 2:51 AM
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^ Olympic Stadium can be temporarily enlarged to accommodate about 70,000 fans, putting it well within the range you posted above. I can't imagine that any updates and renovations would even come close to the cost of a new build.
FIFA deflates the capacity of stadiums as they require seating areas for media, dignitaries, etc. Usually capacities are reduced by up to 5,000.

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The big O can be renovated to have 80,000 seats. Remember the attendance record is 76,433 for the 1976 opening and closing ceremonies and that's WITH the track field.
See above. Besides, why are we renovating a cripplingly-bad stadium instead of building a newer one again?


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I agree it would cost a LOT but a men World Cup ain't cheap. We would also have approximately 8-10 years from the moment the announcement is made to the actual start of the World Cup.
Which makes the Big 0 8-10 years older than it is right now. It's not holding up well with age.
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  #3860  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2015, 3:12 AM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
FIFA deflates the capacity of stadiums as they require seating areas for media, dignitaries, etc. Usually capacities are reduced by up to 5,000.


See above. Besides, why are we renovating a cripplingly-bad stadium instead of building a newer one again?



Which makes the Big 0 8-10 years older than it is right now. It's not holding up well with age.
It's either that or Toronto building a brand new massive stadium for the final. Both options would be extremely costly but renovating the big O would be "cheaper"(strong word there) as the structure is already there. An open air, Olympic configuration, major facelifted Olympic stadium will totally be a worthy World Cup final venue. The sight lines for football or soccer are great.
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