PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX - Page 423

AbortedWalrus · #**8441** Posted **Sep 10, 2015, 3:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insoluble

The problem I have is with the borderline propaganda pieces talking about how passing this tax reform will create 80,000 jobs!!!!1. No. It very well could increase job growth, but that number has no basis in reality. Tell me why and how the tax reform will be beneficial instead of tossing BS at me.

The problem you have is that you didn't actually read the report, just the stories about the report. Try giving the actual Econsult report a read. There are plenty of facts, historical analysis, and good modeling in what they did. They didn't just pull it out of thin air.

1487 · #**8442** Posted **Sep 10, 2015, 3:34 PM**

I think we need to be clear on what the prerogative actually means. It is most often used when it comes to transferring city owned property to private interests or when a zoning change is needed for a significant project. It means that council persons will not push for a sale or a change outside of their district. It isn't the greatest practice, but generally speaking it is not a major factor in whether or not there is development in the city. There is stuff being built all over South Philly, center city, Fairmount, fishtown and lower/central north Philly. The prerogative is simply not a factor in most private developments. And when it comes to zoning changes developers have the option of going through the ZBA but many prefer having spot zoning so they dont have to prove hardship in front of the ZBA. But let's not act like they MUST go to a councilperson to build in most cases- they don't.

As for rezoning- the mapping is done by the PCPC- they have already said they need more staff if folks want the pace of remapping accelerated. Council people dont tell PCPC when to remap- they follow their process and then they need a district councilperson to introduce the legislation. I haven't read that the Washington Ave area has been remapped and is awaiting action from Johnson. HAve you read that?

1487 · #**8443** Posted **Sep 10, 2015, 3:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

The problem you have is that you didn't actually read the report, just the stories about the report. Try giving the actual Econsult report a read. There are plenty of facts, historical analysis, and good modeling in what they did. They didn't just pull it out of thin air.

It's still BS and these simplistic job number measures ignore huge changes in the American economy. To claim that job loss in Philly can be simply blamed on tax structure is absurd. Many of the jobs that were lost since the halcyon days of 1960 or 1970 don't exist anywhere in the US at this point. There are also geographical issues that affect where offices are located in NYC or Boston vs Philly. Building huge office parks in the Philly suburbs was relatively easy. At one time there was plenty of cheap land available within a reasonable distance of CC and major highway exits to build huge office parks with tons of free parking. Philly is surrounded by suburban counties that offered land to build on and the exodus was made easy. The same situation doesn't exist in NYC or Boston. DC is supposedly doing better than Philly and yet its surrounded by hundreds of suburban office buildings and jobs have decentralized in that area just as they have here.

Cro Burnham · #**8444** Posted **Sep 10, 2015, 4:01 PM**

planphilly.com/articles/2015/04/06/land-taxes-what-they-are-and-why-we-re-hearing-more-about-them

Another great Jon Geeting / PlanPhilly article on the land tax. A "must read" for those who want an end to blight and vacant lots in Center City.

Londonee · #**8445** Posted **Sep 10, 2015, 6:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

Well lets not overstate the power these people have. I find it interesting when people infer that we "would" be seeing a lot of projects and activity if only we had better politicians which suggests we don't see a lot of activity now. I'm not seeing much evidence that city council actually has much ability to affect the level of development in the city. The zoning code was already changed, the tax abatement has been in place for years and there is national demand for urban living. Those are the facts.

Are you suggesting that, in general, city leadership has little to do with how/when/why a city is developed?

jsbrook · #**8446** Posted **Sep 10, 2015, 6:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

It's still BS and these simplistic job number measures ignore huge changes in the American economy. To claim that job loss in Philly can be simply blamed on tax structure is absurd.

Except that's not what the report or anything/anyone else is claiming.

Knight Hospitaller · #**8447** Posted **Sep 10, 2015, 6:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Except that's not what the report or anything/anyone else is claiming.

Exactly. The tax structure is NOT the only factor, but it's hardly an insignificant one. That said: Let's move on and have more construction and development updates, please! I'm sure there are any number of publicly policy fora where we can knock ourselves out over the tax issue. As someone else pointed out, whatever happens in the tax arena, we have actual building projects and proposals to discuss in the meantime.

McBane · #**8448** Posted **Sep 10, 2015, 7:14 PM**

Is there a separate thread out there for politics, tax, and other topics that are semi-related to construction? I think there should be a forum to discuss these relevant topics but I agree that the main Phila development thread is not one of them.

The other question, if we have a non-construction thread out there or if one is created, will anyone use it? (I know it took more than few false starts for the General Construction thread to gain acceptance and now, people post there all the time.)

allovertown · #**8449** Posted **Sep 10, 2015, 9:02 PM**

I really don't think this even needs to be a contentious political issue. Forget what you think about taxes. The point of the article is that the way Philadelphia collects its taxes is incredibly stupid and how it taxes people is counter productive.

It's not how much we're taxing, it's how we're taxing. At this point numerous studies have shown that the city would greatly benefit from lowering the wage tax and corporate tax and increasing the commercial real estate tax. So whether you think Philadelphia should generally tax people more and provide better public services or you think Philadelphia should cut taxes at all costs, you should at least be able to set aside your differences and agree that these changes make sense regardless of your political allegiances.

Once we at least have a sensible tax structure in place, we can then argue until the end of time about the details.

summersm343 · #**8450** Posted **Sep 11, 2015, 12:31 AM**

Marketplace Design Center picks new home at East Market project

Quote:

The Marketplace Design Center has found a new home in Center City.

The group of designers and showrooms comprising the well-known design center has signed a lease on 48,000 square feet to move into 34 S. 11th St. – the former family court building that is under redevelopment by National Real Estate Development and SSH Real Estate.

This is the building’s first corporate tenant. With the tenant secured, the developers also arranged a $38.5 million construction loan from Wells Fargo to move forward with the project called East Market.

Some of the design center tenants have worked out of 2400 Market St., where they are currently located, for 40 years and had been in search of new space for a while. That property is scheduled to be redeveloped by Lubert-Adler and PMC Property Group.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...5/09/design-center-east-market-11th.html

shadowbat2 · #**8451** Posted **Sep 11, 2015, 9:09 AM**

Pics of Broad and Arch from a few weeks ago:

048 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

051 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

050 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

052 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

049 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

Something needs to be done about filling in this gap

054 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

PHL10 · #**8452** Posted **Sep 11, 2015, 11:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowbat2

Something needs to be done about filling in this gap

Shadow, wasn’t there originally an aspect of the design that was to fill that hole but when said detail was eliminated, the design wasn’t updated? I’m not sure if I am remembering that correctly.

1487 · #**8453** Posted **Sep 11, 2015, 12:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Except that's not what the report or anything/anyone else is claiming.

That is basically what the report and the group are claiming. They typically used 1970 or so as the benchmark to start measurements of job performance in the city as if the massive changes in the American economy didn't have a lot to do with what happened. And they select cities for comparison that were NOT as dependent on manufacturing. This isn't to say you can't improve the tax structure, but it is to say they select data and benchmarks that only support their narrow explanation of why there are or are not a certain # of jobs in Philadelphia.

Knight Hospitaller · #**8454** Posted **Sep 11, 2015, 1:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHL10

Shadow, wasn’t there originally an aspect of the design that was to fill that hole but when said detail was eliminated, the design wasn’t updated? I’m not sure if I am remembering that correctly.

There was a beautiful, classical style building there that was supposed to be preserved, but got demolished.

Insoluble · #**8455** Posted **Sep 11, 2015, 2:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

Is there a separate thread out there for politics, tax, and other topics that are semi-related to construction? I think there should be a forum to discuss these relevant topics but I agree that the main Phila development thread is not one of them.

The other question, if we have a non-construction thread out there or if one is created, will anyone use it? (I know it took more than few false starts for the General Construction thread to gain acceptance and now, people post there all the time.)

I'd read it. I'm rather interested in learning more about these things. So I'll go ahead and start a thread in the general discussions - Skybar.

Link:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=7160103#post7160103

Mods please feel free to move or delete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

The problem you have is that you didn't actually read the report, just the stories about the report. Try giving the actual Econsult report a read. There are plenty of facts, historical analysis, and good modeling in what they did. They didn't just pull it out of thin air.

Response in thread above.

Cro Burnham · #**8456** Posted **Sep 11, 2015, 2:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHL10

Shadow, wasn’t there originally an aspect of the design that was to fill that hole but when said detail was eliminated, the design wasn’t updated? I’m not sure if I am remembering that correctly.

Could it be they'll use the gap for a port cochere (sp?)?

arnaz · #**8457** Posted **Sep 11, 2015, 2:48 PM**

According to a University City Science Center LinkedIn post, there will be a big announcement regarding the University City HS site. The post reads, "Some big changes in store for this site. Stayed tuned for a big announcement next week!"

Hope its something good!

Knight Hospitaller · #**8458** Posted **Sep 11, 2015, 3:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Could it be they'll use the gap for a port cochere (sp?)?

There was no plan for that space when it was created, although they may come up with one now. More on the origins of the Broad Street gap, as my recollection was a bit fuzzy:

http://hiddencityphila.org/2014/03/expanded-convention-center-economic-failure-urbanists-nightmare/

"The North Broad Street side of the Convention Center is simply an embarrassment. Starting on the corner of Arch Street, the Liberty Title & Trust Building—the only one of twenty between 13th and Broad Streets to be spared, and which was to become a grand new hotel—still stands empty and covered in scaffolding at street level. Next to that scaffolding, an empty lot protected by a chain link fence stands as a monument to the 11th hour demolition of the Philadelphia Life Insurance Company buildings. The five-story façades of the original, circa-1915 Beaux-Arts hall by Adin Lacey and its 1962 addition by Mitchell/Giurgola, were originally incorporated into the design, protected by the PA Historical and Museum Commission, but overruled by PA Department of General Services (who oversaw the expansion). Despite the efforts of preservationists, those two buildings came down, and in their place, we got a fenced off wall of spite."

summersm343 · #**8459** Posted **Sep 11, 2015, 3:25 PM**

EMR Eastern wins $253M in tax credits, will build HQ in Camden

Quote:

An international metal recycling company is set to receive $253 million in tax incentives to put towards the construction of a 700,000-square-foot campus in Camden.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority approved the tax incentives for EMR Eastern, the owner of the city's Camden Iron & Metal, according to an Inquirer report.

The seven buildings to be constructed will include an advanced metals recovery facility and the company headquarters, currently in Bellmawr. The project will be completed by September 2018, according to the proposal.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...r-eastern-metal-253m-tax-credits-hq.html

Larry King · #**8460** Posted **Sep 11, 2015, 3:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

EMR Eastern wins $253M in tax credits, will build HQ in Camden

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...r-eastern-metal-253m-tax-credits-hq.html

What Norcross has accomplished is nothing short of amazing.

This has to be well over $1 billion in economic development dollars for Camden. We'll be looking at a new camden in 10 years, that's for sure and it's great for Philadelphia.