Winnipeg Construction VIII

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by drew

I agree the notion that "LC equals undesirables" is unfortunate - but I can't see how it is not the logical outcome if one opens, especially in the Exchange.

I know people who avoid the LC at Portage and Banning, let alone the one on Ellice. It's just the reality of the situation.

An "upscale" wine store would probably work fine.

This is exactly on point. Instead of looking at how the low price/high alcohol content is a significant contributor to revenue at an inner city location and leaning into it to maximize revenue at the store you step back and look at the demographic buying the products. You also try and target a more upscale client by rally limiting the floor stock on lower ticket price items. When the shelves are full of Humulus Ludicrous instead of 2 litre Stone Cold the customers will start to get the message.

The other side of things is maybe tone down the security somewhat with them being special trained product advisors wearing LC store uniforms instead of Garda gear. Have them also have at least a limited depth of product knowledge to help out some customers too so their presence is less imposing.

If people really wanted LC stores to work in the inner city without the problems they are often associated with there are definitely ways to approach it but defining the "success" of a store entirely by the revenue it is generating is not likely to meet this goal.

[esquire]

^ I doubt MLLC is going to stop stocking the cheap stuff... I have some vague recollection of some PR flack explaining that one of the reasons Liquor Marts carry the cheap sherry and what-not is because they consider it in the public interest. What happens when it's not available is that addicts turn to non-potable substances which end up doing far more damage.

[drew]

^ cheap sherry is a staple for those nights when you want to make french onion soup...

...is there such a thing as expensive sherry?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by drew

^ cheap sherry is a staple for those nights when you want to make french onion soup...

...is there such a thing as expensive sherry?

Glad you asked! According to Google/The Telegraph:

$43,500 - Massandra 1775: the most expensive sherry.

The oldest known bottle of sherry from Russia's Massandra winery sold at auction at Sotherby's (sic) London in 2001.

43 large for a bottle of sherry... damn.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by esquire

In other news, Edison Properties is cooking up other unspecified projects now that Ruth Gardens is over. Anyone with keys to the paywall doors can read about it here:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/business/edison-properties-bright-idea-325576001.html

I've only ever seen Ruth Gardens from the air, but it certainly looks like a hulking beast in the context of its surroundings. It strikes me as an ideal infill project.

The apartments going up on Peguis are looking rather large as well. I'm not sure of the exact height they will terminate. But one of the two that are going up right now is masonry and is at the 7 storey mark. The other is stick framed and is only at maybe 4 storeys.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by abo

Havent been on these boards for a while, glad to see it alive and well! So, word on the street rn is that the Hargrave and Ellice liquor mart will be bought out by True North to continue their projects in that area. They want a clean image of downtown so the people walking out with cheap bottles of sherry, hanging out in groups around there and causing disturbances are not part of TN's best interest. It wouldn't surprise me considering the store is across the street from the Glasshouse/Parkade development they are working on atm. Nothing official or that I heard first hand.. just rumours. Anyone hear anything about this?

As someone who works in the area. I would love for this to happen. Perhaps then they can buy out the Quest Inn and Giant Tiger as well.

That said. The LC property is pretty small and there is still a steady number of people staggering around in the area. So while removing the LC might remove a few undesirables from the area, the real problem is the Quest Inn and its residents.

[drew]

Originally Posted by esquire

Glad you asked! According to Google/The Telegraph:



43 large for a bottle of sherry... damn.

Huh. I might even forgo having ice with a shot of that Sherry...

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by h0twired

As someone who works in the area. I would love for this to happen. Perhaps then they can buy out the Quest Inn and Giant Tiger as well.

As someone who lives in the area I'd rather not lose Giant Tiger.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm a regular at the Ellice location, although yeah, I get that being a big, still somewhat young-ish male means that I don't face the issues that others, particularly women, do. However, I will say that this location is exceptionally well staffed by Liquor Mart personnel as well as security guards... you can't turn around in the parking lot or inside without several friendly employees offering you a hand. No one should feel concerned about going in there!

I completely agree. I actually don't think there's anything wrong with the LC being there, they're very diligent about not selling to anyone that looks even slightly intoxicated, and they don't let anyone loiter around on the property. I think it's actually a terrible coincidence that it happens to be located near one of the worst corners in all of downtown.

As someone mentioned before, Quest Inn always has many 'undesirables' around it, the Marlborough the last 5 years has made it worse. Plus, on that 2 block stretch of Ellice (Smith-Hargrave) you have 4 surface lots, 2 parkades w/ no retail, Giant Tiger, vacant Masonic Temple, Enterprise, vacant former Discreet Boutique... THAT is the issue here - there's nothing bringing anyone else there. It is NOT because of the LC.

[Simplicity]

To address the LC moving into TN Square, this is still a highly dubious project to begin with, so I wouldn't be making too many plans as yet. Similarly, in speaking with an exec for MLL at a recent(ish) event, they're certainly interested in the proposal, but even if the building manifests, its years away and they're on a schedule. The concern at this point is really logistics. If you were out of the ground tomorrow it would be 2-3 years before they're moving in. That means a more likely scenario of 5 years. I don't doubt the Chipmans have put all their chips in the middle, but MLL has to settle somewhere. If they continue to put off their move (having already sold their real estate) and start having to temporarily renovate space as they wait out a building as others like the Bay site vacant, they're going to have a lot of political explaining to do. I once thought this was a slam dunk but I'm less sure now given the time lines and less-than-stellar results of the first project.

Re: the liquor mart issue - most people forget that the LC on Main and Manitoba takes the crowd most people don't care to see at the moment. The troubles with the one on Ellice have always been overstated given that Central Park has really cleaned itself up. But Main Street is Main Street and the Woodbine and McLaren only service part of that need. And anyway, why would a derelict need to walk to the Woodbine when the Manwin and 5 other vendors just north of the underpass will suffice? On the other hand, an LC in the Exchange would service everybody from Higgins on South and that's including a lot of people those in the Exchange are not interested in servicing.

You'll create a destination. As it is now, downtown is happy to have most of their most undesirable constituents situated closer to Manitoba Ave than Ellice and Hargrave. Change that and you'll see just how effectively location alters consumer behaviour.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by h0twired

As someone who works in the area. I would love for this to happen. Perhaps then they can buy out the Quest Inn and Giant Tiger as well.

What's so offensive about Giant Tiger? Given the state of retail downtown, it's one of the best amenities we've got. I may not love shopping there, but it sure beats having to take a bus somewhere just to get eggs and toilet paper.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

What's so offensive about Giant Tiger? Given the state of retail downtown, it's one of the best amenities we've got. I may not love shopping there, but it sure beats having to take a bus somewhere just to get eggs and toilet paper.

It's funny that Winnipeggers bemoan, on one hand, the fact that downtown retail is nearly dead, and on the other hand they dump on one of the most successful retail enterprises in the area because it isn't chi chi enough.

When I lived downtown I found GT to be very useful - the food section basically functions as a handy and reasonably priced corner store. And it's one of the only places left downtown to get general household goods. I don't think it's under any threat given how busy it is, but if GT ever went away it would be quite a loss for downtown residents from a convenience standpoint. And for those concerned with image, at least GT is tucked away off the main drag so that visitors don't have to see it

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by esquire

It's funny that Winnipeggers bemoan, on one hand, the fact that downtown retail is nearly dead, and on the other hand they dump on one of the most successful retail enterprises in the area because it isn't chi chi enough.

When I lived downtown I found GT to be very useful - the food section basically functions as a handy and reasonably priced corner store. And it's one of the only places left downtown to get general household goods. I don't think it's under any threat given how busy it is, but if GT ever went away it would be quite a loss for downtown residents from a convenience standpoint. And for those concerned with image, at least GT is tucked away off the main drag so that visitors don't have to see it

unless your cab driver choses to take ellice on the way downtown from the airport

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

It's funny that Winnipeggers bemoan, on one hand, the fact that downtown retail is nearly dead, and on the other hand they dump on one of the most successful retail enterprises in the area because it isn't chi chi enough.

When I lived downtown I found GT to be very useful - the food section basically functions as a handy and reasonably priced corner store. And it's one of the only places left downtown to get general household goods. I don't think it's under any threat given how busy it is, but if GT ever went away it would be quite a loss for downtown residents from a convenience standpoint. And for those concerned with image, at least GT is tucked away off the main drag so that visitors don't have to see it

Winnipeggers bemoan that a certain type of retail is dead.

Giant Tiger is perfectly fine retail, but it has a radiant effect that makes everything around it less valuable. I just think it's funny that the city - and if this LC business is true, the Chipmans - think you can turn the area around by playing whack-a-mole with places Aboriginals hang out with any success. How many millions of dollars are the civic and provincial governments going to spend killing every available service in an area the population they're trying to chase out has long been ensconced?

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Jeff

unless your cab driver choses to take ellice on the way downtown from the airport

Bring back the airport route beautification!!!!

....seriously, though

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Giant Tiger is perfectly fine retail, but it has a radiant effect that makes everything around it less valuable.

I don't know how much of downtown Winnipeg's current state when it comes to retail can be blamed on operations like GT. The reality is that global cities with successful downtowns are chock-a-block with outfits like GT. The only difference is that they settle into the background in cities like Paris or Tokyo because there are so many other businesses lining the sidewalks. In places like that, having general merchandisers around doesn't seem to hurt business all that much. I'm not sure how pronounced of an effect it really has in Winnipeg.

[Labroco]

First, I think Giant Tiger is a great company servicing a need for basic products in the community. The milk, bread and eggs are fresh and all household goods that one needs are available. Maybe your issue is with signage?

Secondly, while we are talking about social engineering and the effects of alcohol, let's revisit the Woodbine...

With it's impending or completed sale, why did CV not act on this opportunity?
The sale of the building along with the vendor/ off sales was south of $1,500,000?
Is this correct?

Remove the value of the building from this equation and the vendor could have been purchased and closed down for the cost of the savings of policing the area in 2 or 3 years or what was spent on sidewalks or whistling lamppost on Market.

Let's get get back to core issues and how best to allocate our limited resources to grow and prosper the collective community...

I really feel this was a huge missed opportunity that was almost self financed ...

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't know how much of downtown Winnipeg's current state when it comes to retail can be blamed on operations like GT. The reality is that global cities with successful downtowns are chock-a-block with outfits like GT. The only difference is that they settle into the background in cities like Paris or Tokyo because there are so many other businesses lining the sidewalks. In places like that, having general merchandisers around doesn't seem to hurt business all that much. I'm not sure how pronounced of an effect it really has in Winnipeg.

You have to separate out the operation from its constituents. Winnipeg (and Manitoba, really...) has a race problem; not a discount retail problem.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Giant Tiger. There are dollar stores and other discount retail all over major cities with very successful downtowns. The difference is that you will never bring our two populations together in a way that they will happily co-exist. So you get thinly-veiled rhetoric about the store's offerings when what people really mean to say is that they're afraid of the area and displeased by who frequents it.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Labroco

First, I think Giant Tiger is a great company servicing a need for basic products in the community. The milk, bread and eggs are fresh and all household goods that one needs are available. Maybe your issue is with signage?

Secondly, while we are talking about social engineering and the effects of alcohol, let's revisit the Woodbine...

With it's impending or completed sale, why did CV not act on this opportunity?
The sale of the building along with the vendor/ off sales was south of $1,500,000?
Is this correct?

Remove the value of the building from this equation and the vendor could have been purchased and closed down for the cost of the savings of policing the area in 2 or 3 years or what was spent on sidewalks or whistling lamppost on Market.

Let's get get back to core issues and how best to allocate our limited resources to grow and prosper the collective community...

I really feel this was a huge missed opportunity that was almost self financed ...

$1.2MM and the management is staying in place.

The issue here is that this hotel and others - like the McLaren, for instance - exist as relatively quiet affordable housing for a lot of people who would otherwise be hugely expensive wards of the system going in and out of ERs with an overtime police escort on a bi-weekly basis. So it's not quite as simple where the calculations are concerned. What the Woodbine can do for 'society' at a costs of hundreds of dollars a month versus what the government would poorly accomplish for many thousands is where the real value lies.

[1ajs]

Woodbine is actually the vender for the exchange allot of people would be annoyed besides the vagrants

The mclairin bar closes at 10pm and venders closed by midnight