[Moncton] Centre Avenir Centre | 26.65m |~6 Fl | Completed

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Since these hockey fans are occupying all the parking spots downtown but not really eating at the downtown restaurants all that frequently, I can't imagine that this would be all that good for business. I don't think it would be too long before the Downtown Moncton Business Association would be howling for improved parking availability in the core. I'm sure this will happen.

We have three years before the events centre opens. We need to use this time to find ways to properly address this issue........

There's no doubt that the Events Centre will increase demand for parking downtown. That's exactly what's needed to make a private parking facility profitable in the core. I can see a few of them popping up downtown in the next few years.

[SaintJohner]

Oh my does reading cbc ever making me angry... I don't think they actually have anyone moderating the comments... if you go through the comments you will notice there are on every moncton story ... the same 12 people commenting over and over again...

[SaintJohner]

It also breaks my heart to see how un-happy and angry people in this city are.... so many people crying over the fact it might be cold out or they have to walk... it actually makes me sick to my stomach to see that people in NB are that lazy and hateful... nothing make people happy, not a single thing... I don't know how to even take it.

Im very disappointed in the people of Moncton and NB as a whole, for being so lazy and against everything good. I am starting to think its not the governments fault the province is this way, but because of the citizens of the provice.. nothing gets done because people hate and are against everything and anything.

[MonctonRad]

There is certainly much negativity here in the Maritimes; to the point where it becomes demoralizing even to optimistic people but I tend to find that Moncton is a little bit more immune to this than most places in the region.

If the events centre is a bit of a lightning rod for some people, I think it's more because they are concerned about what the borrowing costs for this will do to their tax rates down the road. This is understandable, but people have to be aware that sometimes you have to spend money in order to make money. The events centre is a classic example of this. The events centre is a strategic investment.

There is already $84M in potential private investments identified in nearby areas of the city that will likely be unlocked by this development. I don't think this is all of it. I suspect there will be more to come. This will increase the city's tax base and will likely cover most if not all the costs of financing this project.

There are the intangibles too. A bright and bustling downtown makes people feel good about themselves, about their city and about their decision to live where they're living. It makes the city more attractive to investors and immigrants. People want to live in cities that seem to be growing, alive and prosperous - cities with vitality and a sense of je ne c'est quoi. Urbanity is the key and is the answer to this. The events centre helps to give Moncton this sense of urbanity.

In 10-15 years time even the naysayers will admit that this was the right thing to do.......

[SaintJohner]

Sorry for that rant, just reading the comments and seeing people's anger, really brought me down.

[MonctonRad]

No worries. Remember, the key is to never read the comments section on the CBC. This is toxic to the soul....

[BlackYear]

There was an article in the T&T several days ago pertaining to the cost of parking garage. If I remember correctly, the average price per car stall was around $24,000. And I think that was construction cost. Not including maintenance and operating cost.

Google searching the topic comes up with pretty much the same cost.

If this is the case, then a 300 car stall parking garage would cost $7.2 million.

If you count 140 events per year @ an average 2.5 hour show, and fill all 300 parking spots at a rate of $2.50/hr, that equals to $262,500 per year revenue.

$7.2 million divided by $262,500 equal 27 years.

Let's not count in all the other factors: extra revenue from non event parking, maintenance cost, operation cost, electric bill, property taxes, etc.

So who wants to go into the parking garage business? Not me!

[L'homard]

Budyser, I was saying the exact same thing here the other day. A privately funded parking garage at $27,000 per stall (I believe that is the correct figure) is a non starter in a city awash in parking, much of it free.

Saint Johner, I get down as well reading those forums. Remember though, as you yourself said, it's the same 12 people every day. (More or less.)

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Also, it's a waste of everyone's time to discuss and read CBC comments. I'm tired of reading about them here.

^^^^^

Parking garages are such a money pit. I recall visiting a game in Oshawa at GM Centre and there was no parking garage either above or below ground. If you're driving in find somewhere to park at one of the many lots surrounding the arena. It's not a big deal. The same thing is done in St. Catharines for Niagara IceDogs games and at Knights games in London. There are already spaces and lots within a ten minute walk. Suck it up and deal with walking...you don't need to drop millions of dollars on a parking garage so you can cut your walk from 10 minutes away to 7 minutes down a flight of stairs.

These sorts of people will complain about anything. Once the garage is built they'll complain about a lack of elevators, or how it's too small for their cars, or how it's not how they precisely want it. You'll never appease naysayers. Moncton just needs to keep plowing forward with their current plans and they'll be fine. A change of attitude is what a lot of these folks need.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Budyser

There was an article in the T&T several days ago pertaining to the cost of parking garage. If I remember correctly, the average price per car stall was around $24,000. And I think that was construction cost. Not including maintenance and operating cost.

And the cost per seat at the events centre ($104M/9,088) = $11,440. Not cheap either.........

Originally Posted by Budyser

If this is the case, then a 300 car stall parking garage would cost $7.2 million.

If you count 140 events per year @ an average 2.5 hour show, and fill all 300 parking spots at a rate of $2.50/hr, that equals to $262,500 per year revenue.

$7.2 million divided by $262,500 equal 27 years.

Let's not count in all the other factors: extra revenue from non event parking, maintenance cost, operation cost, electric bill, property taxes, etc.

So who wants to go into the parking garage business? Not me!

I would assume the parking garage would be used at other times rather than during events at the centre.

@150 events per year (2.5 hours per event), that equals 375 hours per year per parking spot for events centre usage. Assuming that the car park could reasonably be used 16 hours per day, that means you are predicting only 6.4% occupancy for each parking space. I think that's a tad low.

Even if you only double the occupancy per car stall (for people using the parking garage for other errands or events in the core), the occupancy rate for the car park would still be a paltry 12.5%, but revenue would increase to $525,000/year, allowing you to amortize the property over 13.5 years rather than 27 years. That's a lot better........

I imagine occupancy would average 20% (on the low side), so I think a strong business case could be made for a parking structure.

Besides, a new parking structure for the core is as much a case of strategic investment in the city as is the events centre itself..........

[BlackYear]

Well lucky for me, I won't have to worry about parking. I live downtown 6-7 blocks away from the "Upcoming New Events Centre" , and only a 15-20 minute walk from the UdeM Stadium.

Private parking lot owners will definitely hire a dude with a florescent vest and flag, collecting $5-$10 for an evening parking spot. It's the norm around the Montreal Bell Centre and will be the same here.

As someone previously mentioned, Moncton's mentality to parking is still small town thinking. They want to park right at the front door of their favorite Mom&Pop stores.

I'm hoping that the New Events Centre will force Codiac Transpo to take another look at the whole operation. Better faster routes, more weather shelter stations in each neighborhood, and special deals during event days.

Let's not forget that Moncton has already completed an excellent bicycle trail system from Moncton North, Riverview and all the way to Dover road Dieppe, with the Events Centre being right in the middle.

Hopefully they can dedicate a large bicycle parking area for all those who will bike to the events.

[MonctonRad]

The current Coliseum is only convenient to the car travelling public, so I am most pleased that the new events centre will be walkable for the downtown folk (and from the west end) and I am also most gratified that the Codiac transit terminal is right next door. There are certainly more travel options for the new events centre.

Having said this, the current Codiac transit system is poorly configured and lacks the capacity to move thousands of people after a concert at the events centre. To make Codiac relevant to the new facility, they will need frequent (at least every 15 minute) express busses operating to the northwest end, Riverview, north central Moncton, Harrisville and Dieppe well into the evening, especially on event nights. If Codiac transit isn't rapid and convenient, then patrons won't use it. If transit isn't convenient then people will drive by default. Hell, a lot of people will drive anyway. Old habits die hard..........

Parking will be the bane of this worthwhile venture, and city council sticking it's head in the sand over this issue won't help.

[MonctonRad]

I see that the performance space at Casino NB has been sponsored by Molson and is now called the Molson Canadian Centre. Presumably this eliminates Molson as one of the potential bidders for naming rights for the new events centre. It would be confusing to have two Molson Centres in the same city.

[Ammn_guy]

Like everything negative to do with the events center i think the parking drama is overblown.

Canada day, Christmas parade, Car show every year draws how many people downtown? They all found places to park. Although the those numbers are exaggerated usually, I am sure its very similar to how many people will show up for a regular wildcats game.

The city probably should invest in a parking stricture of moderate size close to the core to calm down the negative publicity.

Paid parking downtown is getting a little scarcer with five-five, downing st, queen st reconstruction, the sale of the aliant parking lot and the city parking lot on Victoria, there is potential of a huge loss of paid parking when/if all those lands are taken away. And you cant find a monthly covered lot in the winter. Alot of downtown workers would pay a premium for that

As soon as all the private lot owners figure out they can cash in on the after biz hours parking they will be. Unless they are complete morons. which I doubt.

These outcries are just the growing pains of a little city growing up, and some people wanting it to remain little forever.

[pierremoncton]

There's a good commentary on the issue of parking in the T&T today. It touches everything that's been addressed here. Glad to have it published to the masses.

Commentary: If new centre fixes Metro’s ‘car culture,’ it’s already a winner

But there’s a substantial portion of our population who love to whine about almost everything.

In the past six months, I’ve had to visit downtown Moncton on many occasions, and not once did I ever have the slightest problem finding a parking spot. Nor did I ever risk the dreaded ‘boot’ or even once have to walk any further than I’d have had to if I were at Champlain Place or one of the big box developments in the north end on any average day. Sometimes I had to walk less!

Whining about wind, rain or snow is equally silly. If you want wind-whipped surroundings, try the parking lots along Trinity, Carson, Champlain or even at the existing Coliseum, which can present you with a long hike to your car too.

Full article (paywall): https://www.telegraphjournal.com/times-transcript/story/43638001/commentary-if-new-centre

[MonctonRad]

I agree that there is lots of surface parking in the core, and parking shouldn't be an issue but the elephant in the room remains the booters. City council has to slay that beast once and for all in order to make this issue go away. Unless people can feel comfortable parking in the core without having their cars held hostage by extortionists, then at least some people will stay away.

As the article pointed out, the city should force the booters to pay an exorbitant licencing fee to ply their "trade" in order to force them out of business or come to some type of agreement with the owners of the private monthly parking lots downtown to allow "events" parking during the evenings.

These private monthly lots are key to making the events centre viable during the winter months as we all know that on street parking can become physically impossible once the snow flies and the snowbanks mount and the streets become progressively more and more narrow. The issue of parking can't be ignored and the city should not take the concerns of the motoring public lightly. Walking or biking is not an option for a lot of people, especially in a city that sprawls like Moncton.

[David_99]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The issue of parking can't be ignored and the city should not take the concerns of the motoring public lightly. Walking or biking is not an option for a lot of people, especially in a city that sprawls like Moncton.

How do you stop the sprawl? Have more people live downtown. How? Give them a reason to. How? Build a Centre Downtown without parking where people will want to live within walking distance. Create demand. Build more Apartments. Eventually those fill up. Now more people are walking to the Events. Suddenly there's less need for parking. There's going to be growing pains and it's a long term goal, but it's a much needed one imo.

[MonctonRad]

I am as much an advocate of densification of the core as anyone else, but this can't be at the expense of making the core inaccessible to the suburbanites.

Right now, suburbanites tend to ignore the downtown because there's not enough to do there and because of latent fear of the booters. In the future, suburbanites might avoid the core because of the perception that you can't park there.

The events centre should be for all Monctonians, not just the downtown folk. All I'm asking for is some consideration of suburbanite's concerns. A parking structure might not be necessary if we can give the booters the heave-ho, or if an agreement can be made with the private monthly parking lot owners to allow evening events parking (like they do now for special events like the Santa Claus Parade). Even then however, overzealous booters have been known to ply their evil trade and boot cars belonging to parade goers.

The booters have to go!!

[bigrivernb]

I was at the Moncton Market this morning. The city has there booth set up with New Renditions of the downtown events center. They have outside renditions, interior renditions and some surrounding area ideas. I've got to say what they are showing now is impressive to me..Counselor Pellerin (hope I spelled his name right) said that this is pretty well the final rendition of what it will look like, other than possible color changes. Grab a look next time your at the market.

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by bigrivernb

I was at the Moncton Market this morning. The city has there booth set up with New Renditions of the downtown events center. They have outside renditions, interior renditions and some surrounding area ideas. I've got to say what they are showing now is impressive to me..Counselor Pellerin (hope I spelled his name right) said that this is pretty well the final rendition of what it will look like, other than possible color changes. Grab a look next time your at the market.

And you didn't take any pictures!! Can anyone find these online?