Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[Riise]

Originally Posted by king10

The stadium would be used by a private sports team 10 times a year.

355 days a year it can be used by community groups and sports teams.

Why not just build outdoor facilities dedicated to amateur sports? Isn't a massive open air stadium to community sports parks what a $200m fieldhouse is to a $60m fieldhouse?

[GernB]

Just blueskying here but, what if....city builds the fieldhouse as planned in foothills...city/CSEC build 19,000 seats arena and slightly larger version (35-40,000 expandable to 50,000) of IGF at west DT site...city/UC dismantle McMahon stadium above ground level (field is below ground level) down to about 7-8,000 seats...province and feds are approached to contribute to WDT site remediation and reconstruction of crowchild/bow trail interchange and cut-and-cover tunnel connecting to 6th/9th avenues through stadium/arena grounds to ensure riverbank access? City, CSEC and UC get much-desired venues, City and UC get developable land near McMahon, UC gets appropriate varsity stadium, and City gets needed infrastructure improvements at crowchild/bow.

As I said, just blueskying, no idea of this is practical or even possible. With all the stakeholders it may just not be possible. Thoughts?

[king10]

Originally Posted by Riise

Why not just build outdoor facilities dedicated to amateur sports? Isn't a massive open air stadium to community sports parks what a $200m fieldhouse is to a $60m fieldhouse?

Because a stadium is needed for a city the size of Calgary and a tennant would be willing to pay market rent (the stampeders). And the city would recoup its investment through naming rights and rent.

A massive 1.4 million square foot indoor convention centre/ field house costing $200 mill isn't needed. Something a quarter of the price could serve their fieldhouse purpose. A stadium is needed for a city the size of Calgary and can be used for community use as well.

Most other CFL cities have put up money towards a stadium. If Calgary doesn't want to and instead decides to build a $200 mill community centre when they could've built both, then by all means go ahead. Stampeders may leave town though.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by king10

Most other CFL cities have put up money towards a stadium. If Calgary doesn't want to and instead decides to build a $200 mill community centre when they could've built both, then by all means go ahead. Stampeders may leave town though.

But where would they move? Okotoks?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

But where would they move? Okotoks?

Moncton, Moncton, MONCTON, Moncton, MONCTON!!!

[king10]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

But where would they move? Okotoks?

not necessarily move. perhaps just fold.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by king10

Because a stadium is needed for a city the size of Calgary and a tennant would be willing to pay market rent (the stampeders). And the city would recoup its investment through naming rights and rent.

A massive 1.4 million square foot indoor convention centre/ field house costing $200 mill isn't needed. Something a quarter of the price could serve their fieldhouse purpose. A stadium is needed for a city the size of Calgary and can be used for community use as well.

Most other CFL cities have put up money towards a stadium. If Calgary doesn't want to and instead decides to build a $200 mill community centre when they could've built both, then by all means go ahead. Stampeders may leave town though.

$200m toward a fieldhouse is irrelevant to a conversation about putting $140m in savings toward a stadium. Is the need to find a home for the Stampeders greater than the need for the numerous items on the City's unfunded projects list? Does the alleged public benefit of providing a stadium outweigh the public benefits of recreation centres, BRT projects and other infrastructure projects both hard and soft?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by king10

not necessarily move. perhaps just fold.

Like I said before, a stadium poorly suited to a team can be an existential threat. CSEG needs to think long and hard before it makes a long term bet on an atmosphere-deadening hangar-like venue that repels fans.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Riise

$200m toward a fieldhouse is irrelevant to a conversation about putting $140m in savings toward a stadium. Is the need to find a home for the Stampeders greater than the need for the numerous items on the City's unfunded projects list? Does the alleged public benefit of providing a stadium outweigh the public benefits of recreation centres, BRT projects and other infrastructure projects both hard and soft?

Thats not for me to decide. Thats for citizens of Calgary to decide.

I know spending $200 mill for some taj mahal community centre is over kill, when some of that money can be earmarked for other projects such as a needed stadium. If that $200 mill is already a sunk cost on athletics facilities, im saying it should be spent more wisely. If you'd rather spend it on those other projects you noted by all means go ahead.

It would be embaressing IMO for Calgary to not have a quality stadium for a growing city over 1 million. Even a city of 500, 000 Hamilton found money to contribute to a new stadium. And Calgary is on better economic standing than Hamilton.

All other cities in Canada weighed the pros and cons of funding a stadium. And all of them except Halifax felt it was prudent to at least partially fund a new stadium. All those that did fund a new stadium already had a team in town to pay rent in that stadium.

If Calgary doesn't want to at least partially fund a stadium and use that money on a $200 mill community centre or other city projects thats on them.
If they dont want to put up any money to a new stadium Fear the risk of losing the CFL team and being one of the few cities of over 1 million people without a modern decent sized stadium for outdoour concerts and CFL football/ MLS/NASL soccer and community use sports.

Theres nothing wrong with that choice.

Having gone through the funding debacle in Hamilton, I was happy with what we decided on. A no frills economical stadium to get the job done. No extravagant costs. $150 million, and the city contributed around a third of that. No need to overspend, but also a need for a new stadium to keep a major part of the city (the ticats) in town. The stadium also will bring major concerts, pro soccer, international friendlies, community use, millions in naming rights.

As a Hamiltonian I'm glad we put the money towards the stadium. The location could've been better, but that ship has sailed.

[christopherj]

Originally Posted by esquire

Like I said before, a stadium poorly suited to a team can be an existential threat. CSEG needs to think long and hard before it makes a long term bet on an atmosphere-deadening hangar-like venue that repels fans.

Very true... just look at how bleak it is in Toronto. You can talk about the market and whether they are interested in the team all you want, but playing in Skydome has killed any chance at building up the fan base at all.

[Oilkountry]

[DrJoe]

That's pretty small for a new scoreboard. Also looks like 4:3 ratio? Might be the angle.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by DrJoe

That's pretty small for a new scoreboard. Also looks like 4:3 ratio? Might be the angle.

Perfect size for MTS centre. Anything bigger would have looked funny. And the 4:3-4:4 ratio seems to be making a comeback in modern scoreboards if they aren't huge cowboy stadium type. The screens themselves are bigger than the entire original scoreboard at MTS so you wont hear anyone complain too much if at all. Fact is It's such a compact arena Nobody is far enough away from centre ice to require a huge board. That goes for both bowls.

[DrJoe]

I've always liked this picture (projection) of Skydome with natural grass. Couple more years and hopefully this is reality. The place isn't that bad for baseball. Multi use stadiums have obviously fallen out of favour but atleast Skydomes natural alignment is for baseball. The terrible multi use stadiums they had in the US looked extremely awkward in their baseball alignment like it was the afterthought.

[Oilkountry]

Looks like they got most of the ribbon board on. Way bigger than the last one and Im not sure if they are putting the old fuelled by passion board back up but the playoff one is coming down on the press box whats interesting is the brackets that you can see up there closley match the ones used for the ribbon board. They may add another strip to the press box

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by DrJoe

Yeah, it would be a real shocker if the Jays announced plans for a new stadium for many reasons, not the least of which is the cost and location of this future fictitious stadium.

Skydome is, in my humble opinion, a pretty decent ballpark, especially when the roof's open and there's a decent crowd on hand. And with grass and some other renovations, it'll be a great park once again.

After a new president is named, I'm sure stadium plans will start in earnest. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some very preliminary proposals are floated to the public this off-season.

[logan5]

Rogers Centre baseball capacity could be reduced by about 10 000. Then add some faux historic element to the stadium. Maybe a Camden Yards look to the outfield. Change the colour of the seats as well. That colour adds to the sterile feel of the stadium, just like it did at old BC Place.

[DrJoe]

I dont feel like faux historic would be the way to go. The place will never be do conducive to that style architecture. It would look like a cheap tack on. I feel like they should embrace the modern aspect of the place and get rid of any element that makes it look multi purpose. The black tarped batters eye in centre field would be the best place to start. Some kind of striking or natural feature in that spot would help a bunch.

[esquire]

Faux historic would be horrendous for an unabashedly modern stadium like Skydome. But there are many ways that they could ramp up the character of the place without resorting to that... most of the improvements that Rogers has carried out in the past couple of years will attest to that.

[thurmas]

Once the Argos are out the key items needed in refurbishing Rogers Centre to Baseball only is:
1) re-setting the seating area along the outfield wall to a more baseball friendly manner similar to the renovations in Chicago of US Cellular field for the White Sox that made the bullpen's flush with the seating area, included some ivy and a play batters area for kids.

2) Seat replacement throughout the stadium, most of the seats are 26 years old and their expire date has come up. Also the Jays do not need a 50,000 seat Ballpark on most nights 40k seats would be much more suitable capacity for the club and not make the place feel so cavernous when they are not near a sellout.

3) The stadium has far too much blue paint plastered all over the place there is no contrast it looks cheap. Have a Green outfield wall or something.

4) Ditch the hotel this stadium doesn't need to be the West Edmonton Mall it is a ballpark and make it feel like one.

5) The steel canopies at the entrance gates to the stadium on the outside of the stadium are rusted out and need replacement.