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  #2501  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2015, 1:28 AM
parrina parrina is offline
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Drove by Hamilton road and Gore road yesterday and noticed a crane was up. Anybody know whats going in there?
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  #2502  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2015, 3:14 PM
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More Information on Ayerswood Development Corp project 195 Dundas St at King St & Clarence St.

http://london.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=677590
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  #2503  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2015, 5:46 PM
MrSlippery519 MrSlippery519 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dither City View Post
More Information on Ayerswood Development Corp project 195 Dundas St at King St & Clarence St.

http://london.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=677590
Interesting "the proposal would see the subject property develop as a mixed-use complex featuring
one 35-storey, 316 unit apartment building, one 32-storey, 286 unit apartment building,
one 19-storey, 96 unit apartment building, and one 4-storey office building"

taken from http://www.london.ca/business/Planning-D...n-Design/2015-08-19/195DundasStBrief.pdf
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  #2504  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2015, 12:31 PM
HillStreetBlues HillStreetBlues is offline
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Originally Posted by MrSlippery519 View Post
Interesting "the proposal would see the subject property develop as a mixed-use complex featuring
one 35-storey, 316 unit apartment building, one 32-storey, 286 unit apartment building,
one 19-storey, 96 unit apartment building, and one 4-storey office building"

taken from http://www.london.ca/business/Planning-D...n-Design/2015-08-19/195DundasStBrief.pdf
That looks good. Commercial on Dundas; office and residential on Clarence and King. A greater mix of heights would be nice- 40 stories and 27 stories maybe, for instance- but it's nice in my opinion that they are not quite twins.

I like the look of the building from the Clarence & King side. Nice podium. It’s hard to tell what the Dundas frontage would look like, what that material is.

It would be important to get that corner right. That parking lot is easy to beat, though.
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  #2505  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2015, 5:01 PM
GreatTallNorth2 GreatTallNorth2 is offline
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I was driving my bike down Talbot Street yesterday and noticed that the Hakim Optical is now closed. This is the building purchased by Rygar so I imagine they are still serious about building a tower or two in the area. This is pretty much across the road from Tricar's proposal to the north and Drewlo bought the land to the south.

The proposal on the former Mews land is decent, but way too boxy for my liking and the towers look like twins, which isn't ideal seeing as we have lots of twins already. Anyone notice how many metres the 35 storey tower is?
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  #2506  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2015, 2:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parrina View Post
Drove by Hamilton road and Gore road yesterday and noticed a crane was up. Anybody know whats going in there?
The only thing I saw when I pasted by there was an Ontario affordable housing sign so it's probably an apartment building geared to low income occupants.
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  #2507  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2015, 3:59 AM
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I hope they go ahead with the Clarence/King proposal as that parking lot is a real gap in the urban fabric.

I like the design overall but I must admit the positioning of the towers strikes me as odd. The two towers face each other in very close proximity essentially wiping out the view of half of the units. With this layout half the units are basically looking in another apartment unit. If these are condo it will make them hard to sell as people pay more for every story up because they get the view. All it would take is for the building to be more diagonal so all units would have some view.
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  #2508  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2015, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2 View Post
Anyone notice how many metres the 35 storey tower is?
The heights are intentionally left out of the design brief. That said, a back of the envelope calc would have it at at least 115 - 120 metres. It depends in the height of the ceilings. It would definitely be the tallest thing this side of Mississauga.
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  #2509  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2015, 1:04 PM
MrSlippery519 MrSlippery519 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dwils01 View Post
The only thing I saw when I pasted by there was an Ontario affordable housing sign so it's probably an apartment building geared to low income occupants.
That is exactly what it is from what I heard as well.
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  #2510  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 6:17 PM
HillStreetBlues HillStreetBlues is offline
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Originally Posted by Snark View Post
The heights are intentionally left out of the design brief. That said, a back of the envelope calc would have it at at least 115 - 120 metres. It depends in the height of the ceilings. It would definitely be the tallest thing this side of Mississauga.
I had figured about the same (~125) given that some of the lower floors are offices, but hadn't thought about the fact that One London Place is only 115.

If it exceeds One London Place's height, I would say we need to insist on really excellent design. In my opinion, One London Place is a beautiful building worthy of its status as tallest in the city. I'm sure not everyone agrees with that, but I think some real effort was put in to making it look excellent. I would hope the new number one would, too.

By the way, Landmark Place in Hamilton is the tallest building west of Mississauga, 127 meters.
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  #2511  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2015, 3:42 PM
GreatTallNorth2 GreatTallNorth2 is offline
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It's hard to say how tall the building will be. Hamilton's Landmark Place is 127m with 43 stories. This building is 35 stories, but with some retail/commercial at the base. It would be great to have a new tallest, but agree that the design needs to be tweaked.
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  #2512  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2015, 2:54 PM
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My brother mentioned London is unable to build buildings after a relative height due to the clay ground below it. I thought and argued he was wrong. He was right (did some research on it a few months ago). How tall can these buildings realistically even get with London having a population of about 380k? Can the city support em?
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  #2513  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2015, 12:32 AM
HillStreetBlues HillStreetBlues is offline
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My brother mentioned London is unable to build buildings after a relative height due to the clay ground below it. I thought and argued he was wrong. He was right (did some research on it a few months ago). How tall can these buildings realistically even get with London having a population of about 380k? Can the city support em?
It's true that clay (as opposed to relatively shallow rock) makes tall buildings difficult, but not impossible. The other London was way behind on skyscrapers because of its clay soil, but eventually construction techniques allowed for it to be done.

Many cities in these parts have knee-jerk excuses for why building tall is impossible. In KW, it's because of the high water tabe. Similarly, in municipalities along Lake Ontario, they claim it's hard because so close to the lake (conveniently forgetting that Toronto has one of the tallest buildings in the world).

Your other point is a really good one. I wonder too if the relatively low cost of land in a city like London could justify many buildings of one hundred meters and more.
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  #2514  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2015, 2:25 AM
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As much as they might look good for the skyline, London should not put an emphasis on height.

In terms of urban renewal, pedestrian flow, streetscape development, and infil it is far better to have 3 building of 10 stories than one of 30. The more buildings the higher number of vacant lots that are filled and a higher percentage of the buildings will have storefronts.
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  #2515  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2015, 1:56 PM
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  #2516  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2015, 1:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSlippery519 View Post
Interesting "the proposal would see the subject property develop as a mixed-use complex featuring
one 35-storey, 316 unit apartment building, one 32-storey, 286 unit apartment building,
one 19-storey, 96 unit apartment building, and one 4-storey office building"

taken from http://www.london.ca/business/Planning-D...n-Design/2015-08-19/195DundasStBrief.pdf
ach, the webpage has expired.
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  #2517  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2015, 2:28 AM
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Unfortunate if true but if that gives a better chance of more low/midrise apt/condos going up downtown then it's all for the better.
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  #2518  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2015, 3:08 AM
GreatTallNorth2 GreatTallNorth2 is offline
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The LFP highlights all the potential tower plans downtown. A nice recap...

http://www.lfpress.com/2015/08/28/high-stakes-high-hopes-and-highrises#

In a city already awash with new downtown residential highrises, even more are coming — so many, so high, there are even complaints one would block another’s million-dollar views.

Pie-in-the-sky proposals, you say? Not the way the industry and city hall see things. Norman De Bono reports.

--- --- ---

It’s like a massive, residential suburb climbing into the sky above downtown London.

Nine highrise residential towers are proposed for the city’s core.

Add downtown midrise and highrise buildings in nearby Old East London to the mix and that jumps to 15 new buildings totalling about 2,900 residential units, a towering change for the city’s look and fabric.

It will change not just the city’s skyline but also its bottom line. Because if they’re all built, those projects would pump an extra $7.2 million a year into city coffers.

“It is a huge growth engine for London’s economy,” said Vito Frijia, president of the Southside Group, one of the city’s most active builders.

Each unit will provide the city with anywhere from $2,000 to $2,500 a year in tax revenue. And that doesn’t include the million-dollar penthouse units atop most highrises, Frijia said.

“It is income for the city, tax base for the city. It’s a lot of money.”

The city also calculates 1.5 residents a unit, meaning the ones on the books could bring 4,800 more residents to the more than 4,000 already in the core.

Those who follow London’s building sector say the city can absorb all those units, but it may take time to build them all and some may be still leasing space five or even 10 years from now.

“These will all not happen at the same time. Look at the (London Mews) site. It will be a $300-million development, but it was sold 15 years ago,” Frijia said.

The downtown demand is being driven by a few key factors, say those in the industry.

Seniors and retirees are selling off their four-bedroom suburban homes and want a smaller, simpler lifestyle, a continent-wide trend felt in London.

London is also attracting Toronto retirees, selling big homes and settling where it’s more affordable.

“People want to be in the core, they don’t want to be on the periphery,” Frijia said.

The wider city is also growing at a rate of about one per cent a year, or more than 3,000 new people, many of whom may want a downtown lifestyle.

“A lot of the demand is for downtown and everyone wants new and improved design, with an open-concept look,” Frijia said.

London is also at the “front of the trend” and downtown building may accelerate even faster, said Greg Priamo, a partner and planning consultant with Zelinka Priamo, a private planning firm in London.

“There is no question the approach of the city is that downtown London is the target for density,” he said. “We may see 5,000 more units downtown in the next 10 to 20 years.”

“Typical” of what’s happening in other cities, “London is not extraordinary” and will grow into all the highrise developments in the mix, he said. “I think they will all be developed in the fullness of time.”

If downtown is the target, the bull’s-eye is the massive, nearly 700-unit, $300-million Danford London development, also called Ayerswood, right in the middle of downtown on the former London Mews mall site, between King and Dundas streets at Clarence Street.

It will be a phased development, taking years to build, but will change the city.

“There is no question about that,” Priamo said. “It will be positive, it will bring people downtown and they will view the core as a neighbourhood and not just as a place to visit. That is the goal. The city is aiming to change downtown.”

John Fleming, the city’s planning director, said he isn’t surprised by the building interest in the core. He credits a combination of factors, including the North American trend back to city centres from the suburbs. Another is London’s policy to waive development charges, the fees builders are charged to help pay for growth, as an incentive to build more housing downtown and in nearby Old East London.

“I am very bullish on the downtown and its future,” he said. “Attitudes about living in urban environments throughout North America are changing.”

Fleming also pointed to major public investments made downtown since the late 1990s — Bud Gardens, Covent Garden Market, London Convention Centre and London Public Library — as a contributor. Still more may be on the way with the city’s new Downtown Plan proposing a revamped Dundas streetscape, upgraded forks of the Thames waterfront and pedestrian walkways in the core, to name a few.

Such attractions, offering better quality of living, not only make the core more attractive but have a “snowball effect (that) attracts more investment,” Fleming said.

The tower boom also fits hand-in-glove with a new vision for the city’s future, the London Plan, which foresees a more compact city built inward and upward in the core, with rapid transit feeding into it.

As for how many of the new towers pitched will be built, Fleming is confident but preaches patience.

“I always keep an eye on the long game. Some of them may be five or 10 years out. I can see a large number coming to the core. But if it takes 10 years for some of them, that is the way the market works.”

The downtown boom started with the building of CityPlace, a two-tower, $24-million development built by Drewlo Holdings on Dundas Street at Waterloo Street about 12 years ago. Tricar Group then built the first of its Renaissance towers on King Street more than five years ago, and the second opened in 2013. Demand has been brisk since.

“It’s really all about changing demographics,” Frijia said.

Fleming made it clear the city is making its presence felt in the look of any new towers. It wants high design standards. The planning department suggested 32 improvements to the Tricar Group’s recent Talbot Street proposal.

“I do see the critical importance of quality design. We need to create great neighbourhood environments and pay attention to design,” he said.

That’s a fine standard, as long as it doesn’t lead to micro-managing which can kill development, countered development lawyer Alan Patton, a partner in Patton Cormier Ferreira which represents many builders.

“A problem with development, not just downtown but elsewhere, is there is insistence on meddling in urban design matters,” Patton said.

“That leads to endless talks with city planning officials. I ask them what unsightly buildings have been built that are not adequate in urban design, and they can’t point to one.”

He cited classic London office buildings such as One London Place, City Centre and Talbot Centre as buildings that went up without city design influence.

“They are land-use planners, not architects, and they criticize proposals from world-class Toronto architects,” Patton said of city officials.

He also questioned the degree to which the Downtown Plan, with a broad walkway planned from the Via train station on York Street to Dundas, cutting through the proposed Danford development, as an example of city over-planning in the core.

“There have been obstacles that slowed the applications,” Patton said.

Priamo said he’s heard concerns from builders about the city micro-managing and meddling, but noted he works with planners in other cities and there’s little difference.

“It is a legitimate concern — there is no question. But it is prevalent in most large municipalities. In some cases they are better, in other cases worse. They’re pretty typical.”

As for whether all the new buildings in the mix will be filled or even built, Patton said builders do their homework and don’t casually take on tens of millions of dollars in debt.

“These are experienced developers, they have growing confidence in London and in the downtown,” he said.

“They watch growth trends and they are seeing that some investments made by the city have been helpful. There is a vibrant private sector downtown, on Richmond Row and King Street, and they believe these are prudent investments if they can get co-operation from the city planning department.”

--- --- ---

DOWNTOWN RESIDENTIAL HIGHRISES

Who, where, how big and where they’re at in the proposal or planning stages:

505 Talbot St.

Tricar Group, 30 storeys, 199 units. Approved by city planning and environment committee; to city council Tuesday for final approval.

183 King St.

Southside Group, 25 storeys, 200 units. Developer Vito Frijia preparing site-plan application to submit in about two months. Earlier bid to tear down a building, deemed historically important rejected.

560 and 562 Wellington St. at Wolfe Street.

Auburn Developments, 188 units, 25- storeys, just north of Centennial Hall. Site-plan application city has is on hold, after opposition from nearby Woodfield area. Has been called out of character for the area; would loom over Victoria Park and Victorian homes.

50 King St.

Middlesex County, 30 storeys, 200 units. City has site-plan application, but project opposed by residents in nearby Renaissance Towers who fear it will block their spectacular views.

King and Clarence streets, former London Mews site

Danford London, two towers, 35 and 32 storeys, total 698 units; third low-rise building with retail and commercial space and some residential. Value believed to be $300 million. Builder Tony Graat seeking rezoning; in talks with city over pedestrian walkway planning department wants through the space.

Horton and Waterloo

Creative Property Development, 15- to 25-storey highrise on historic railway Roundhouse site. Early days, city has no site-plan application.

96 Ridout St. S.

Zoning approved, Tricar, 22-storey condo tower, 191 units — one-bedroom, two-bedroom and penthouse.

Talbot and Fullarton area

Rygar Developments, 33-storey, 248 units, $100 million. Proposal to build at 100 Fullarton fell through when site could not be bought; now shifted to a nearby site at Fullarton and Talbot. Zoning approved.

--- --- ---

DOWNTOWN MIDRISES

89 Ridout St. S.

Tricar building a four-storey with 35 units.

310 Central Ave. and 581-585 Central Ave.

Six-storey, 35 units, by B.J. Hardick. Zoning approved.

356 Dundas St.

Six storeys, 69 units, by Yossie Lavie. Has applied to city.

--- --- ---

ELSEWHERE

Dundas Street at Lyle Street, Old East Village

Medallion, site-plan application made for third apartment tower, 22-storey, 299 units. Zoning approved to join sister towers, one 24-storey, 325-unit at King and Hewitt streets, the other 21-storey, 292-unit mid-block along King Street.

250 to 272 Springbank Dr., near the Coves

Rand Developments, two 14-storey highrises. Originally denied by city, developer won an Ontario Municipal Board ruling giving project new life. City preparing a site-plan application it has to take to the OMB.

Former South Street Hospital site

1,050 units in highrises; 450 in midrise buildings. City sought and received expressions of interest from developers and will issue request for proposals to build by year-end.

--- --- ---

WHO’S LIVING DOWNTOWN

More than 4,000 people, 75% growth from 1996 to 2011.
Most residents are between 20 and 40 years old.
Median household income has risen 46% over the last decade, to $50,553 from $34,667.
Total core property assessment rose 61% from 2004 to 2013, from $654.4 million to more than $1 billion.
Store vacancies fell to 11.5% from 12.1% from 2011 to 2013.
--- --- ---

SO, YOU WANT TO BUILD A HIGHRISE?

It takes, as one developer puts it, “big-boy pants,” including:

Three development phases — buying the land, getting city hall approval and getting financing.
The lot needs to be at least an acre, with enough room for parking, usually a garage on lower levels.
Builder then has to prepare to apply to city hall to get the plan approved, called site-plan approval.
Experts — architects, planners, structural and mechanical engineers and geo-technical consultants — need to be hired to prepare the building design.
There may also be a host of needed studies, such as on traffic impact, noise and vibration and shadows, urban design, soil tests or evironmental assessment and, in some cases, a heritage impact study.
Once completed, the application with the design goes to the city planning department. That begins a series of negotiations about urban design guidelines, the project’s look, parking and impact on the neighbourhood. Planners critique and recommend changes.
At this point, the builder has spent about $200,000 just to make the application, not including buying the land.
When the builder and planning staff agree, it goes to the politicians, the city’s planning and environment committee and then to full city council, where even more changes may occur before approval.
After all that, it’s time to get the money: A builder will need about $40 million for a 29-storey tower.
Banks, even if they grant the loan, will only offer up half. The builder needs to supply the rest.
The loan, and interest, will be repaid once rents start flowing in. That may take years. It’s why builders often have several projects on the go at the same time.
“You have to have the capital, you need to have your big-boy pants on. It’s a huge investment,” says Vito Frijia, president, Southside Group in London.
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  #2519  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2015, 3:15 AM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
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Great news for London but enough talk let's see some construction!
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  #2520  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2015, 3:19 PM
MrSlippery519 MrSlippery519 is offline
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Yes agreed, all sounds great but lets see some shovels in the ground for the many downtown proposals.
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