Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[esquire]

^ Why does the stadium have to be all of those things to get public money, though? The Bombers got a bunch of provincial loans on favourable terms that they will pay back over time...seems like a win-win. The only real concession was that the stadium is made available for the U of M's football teams and maybe some other University uses (which makes sense given that it sits on free university land). It's not like the Bombers had to go to the pretense of making it a recreational facility/convention centre/youth drop-in centre/home for single mothers and all those other things.

[king10]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Why does the stadium have to be all of those things to get public money, though? The Bombers got a bunch of provincial loans on favourable terms that they will pay back over time...seems like a win-win. The only real concession was that the stadium is made available for the U of M's football teams and maybe some other University uses (which makes sense given that it sits on free university land). It's not like the Bombers had to go to the pretense of making it a recreational facility/convention centre/youth drop-in centre/home for single mothers and all those other things.

Calgary has some mandate to build a community use field house, which is fine. They can build a field house seperately from the stadium. And the stadium can still be used by the public and rented out like THF is.

I dont understand why they have to cram a fieldhouse and stadium into one and have moveable bleachers that only partially cover the running track while building a massive roof that covers 1.4 million square feet. The roof alone probably costs 40% of the 200 mill.

[Airboy]

Really this was to get the Flames/Stamps faithful in line. Every conceptual plan is grand but does not have substance. As reality sets in and designs are refined we will see a better plan. But I think this is going to be very tough to get by council.And broadcast and print media look look like they are not behind it already.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Airboy

Really this was to get the Flames/Stamps faithful in line. Every conceptual plan is grand but does not have substance. As reality sets in and designs are refined we will see a better plan. But I think this is going to be very tough to get by council.And broadcast and print media look look like they are not behind it already.

As we know around here, usually it's the other way around... projects tend to start out with their most optimistic projections to get people excited and then get pared back as reality sets in.

You don't really see many projects lead off with something half-assed and then get better over time. It's typically a one-way track.

[oiler-dude]

Some shots of Rogers Place from an angle we don't see often (back-side by the LRT station), plus the community rink and casino. Courtesy of chrisvazquez27 on Connect2Edmonton.


Rogers Place by Chris Vazquez, on Flickr


Rogers Place by Chris Vazquez, on Flickr


Rogers Place by Chris Vazquez, on Flickr



Rogers Place by Chris Vazquez, on Flickr


Rogers Place by Chris Vazquez, on Flickr


Rogers Place by Chris Vazquez, on Flickr

[SkahHigh]

I'll just leave this here concerning the Calgary project:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=xcwJt4bcnXs

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by esquire

As we know around here, usually it's the other way around... projects tend to start out with their most optimistic projections to get people excited and then get pared back as reality sets in.

You don't really see many projects lead off with something half-assed and then get better over time. It's typically a one-way track.

I have a feeling we will see half the project but a very good product.

[LeftCoaster]

Love the location of the Calgary stadium, but not much else, from the cost to the concept to the design (how does it look aged before it's even built?) it all seems wrong.

Build a regular hockey arena in that location and a cheaper open air stadium and you will be more than happy with the results. Spend the rest of the money on transit or some much more important stuff like that. No need to build a billion dollar sports facility when you can get an equally functional facility for half the cost.

[Surrealplaces]

That seems to be the consensus....build a nice arena and a half decent open air stadium, which would be fine by me. I don't like indoor stadiums (although a transparent roofed ceiling might be fine)
There's absolutely no reason a nice arena wouldn't be built, they just need to build a relatively inexpensive, but nice stadium, it should be much easier to get the funding from the public.

I think the location is good for the arena....it's probably the best spot outside of the Stampede grounds , and still central. I don't think the location is great for the stadium though. The reason for the sloped roof and uneven seating is due to the shadowing rules as that location sits right on the river park/pathway

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Love the location of the Calgary stadium, but not much else, from the cost to the concept to the design (how does it look aged before it's even built?) it all seems wrong.

Build a regular hockey arena in that location and a cheaper open air stadium and you will be more than happy with the results. Spend the rest of the money on transit or some much more important stuff like that. No need to build a billion dollar sports facility when you can get an equally functional facility for half the cost.

[Kevin_foster]

Jeez, she sure has a nice backside - Thanks for the photos !

[DAVEinEDMONTON]

Originally Posted by Kevin_foster

Jeez, she sure has a nice backside - Thanks for the photos !

Yes indeed...nice to interject some photos of an actual arena in construction. Provide some reality amongst all this fantasy going on...

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't think the proposed Calgary arena is going to be an issue since the NHL's economic model doesn't leave a lot of room to improvise. Nearly every rink built in the last 25 years is very similar on the inside with only relatively minor variations, and I wouldn't expect Calgary's to be much different.

The potential problem here is the proposed stadium. For whatever reason CSEG has gone off in a completely different direction than every other pro football team in North America and instead of proposing a purpose-built football stadium, is proposing some weird hybrid of a university fieldhouse/community centre/convention facility/pro football stadium.

I don't think that the fixed roof on its own would be an insurmountable problem, but when you throw in all of the shortcomings like small capacity, weird lopsided layout and a generally hangar-like environment, I think this stadium would be a big disappointment. It'll be a shiny and new stadium, but it would automatically be the worst stadium in the western division and probably offer up one of the worst game-day experiences in Canada. Frankly, I'm surprised that Calgary is aiming lower than Regina and Winnipeg.

The football fans of Calgary would be a lot better served if CSEG just built a better quality football specific open air stadium. The city could then build an indoor fieldhouse separately. The scale of this project is audacious and impressive, but when you look more closely the biggest single component leaves a lot to be desired.

Winnipeg and Regina stadiums were/are built with public funds where the economics of the CFL or a reasonable ROI weren't even considered. Who is paying for this facility? Is it private money or public money? If it is private, you don't really have a say in how the stadium is designed. Regina is building a beautiful Taj Mahal to football, but it makes absolutely zero financial sense and no private owner would build anything even remotely to that scale. Who is paying determines everything.

[thurmas]

The design renderings this sloppy might doom this project from the start. There is no need for Calgary having a domed CFL stadium. The Stadium and Arena need to be separate buildings the combined rendering looks like a transparent hot water bottle.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by osmo

So .. what do you expect King to do?

If he proposed this...

-Vikingsgab

Would folks be happy? It is a dome remember...

I hate to say It Osmo but I think that's exactly what we were expecting him to propose. A 40,000 seat version of this. We knew it their was a significant chance of this being a dome.I never thought for a second the flames group were going to disappoint anyone with a design. I thought It would be a 40,000 seat Mosaic stadium with a dome that would make a stadium nut like me salivate. Why do you think there is so much Negativity and backlash shown here? It's Like standing in line for an hour at Timmies to buy that chocolate chip cookie you've been craving for hours, Just to get home and find out they gave you raisin instead, You're still gonna eat it but every bite is gonna taste of bitter disappointment. I expected the best parts of this countries stadiums combined into one Hybrid half billion dollar venue that will send the rest of the country into stadium envy and you end up with.....this

[Chadillaccc]

It doesn't look too bad from this angle, but I agree, this city deserves a lot better.

[davidivivid]

Not sure if these have been posted before:


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https://www.ville.quebec.qc.ca/citoyens/amphitheatre/multimedia/photos_2015.aspx

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by thurmas

The design renderings this sloppy might doom this project from the start. There is no need for Calgary having a domed CFL stadium. The Stadium and Arena need to be separate buildings the combined rendering looks like a transparent hot water bottle.

Yes compared to the renderings of most other stadiums (including the Vikings rendering), this one is very amateurish and looks like they did not put in a lot of effort or expense. I mean come on.... 11 vs 8 in the game, bench seating, empty seats everywhere and so on. This may just be the first shot across the bow, but what a poor shot it is. They should have done so much better.

[Stainless]

Originally Posted by Steveston

While it's good to say "we're expecting people to arrive via transit, or on foot", is that a realistic option in Calgary?

I think it would be a nightmare. Probably 85% of this city's population lives outside of walking distance to a CTrain station, and the Park-and-Ride lots are legendary for property crime and are often comically undersized. I've lived in three different neighborhoods in Calgary (N, SW and SE), and getting to this new complex via CTrain would be an absolute pain in the ass from all three.

I truly do not understand this bizarre love affair with downtown stadiums and arenas in Canadian cities that really don't have a meaningful light rail infrastructure. Yes, a glittering stadium on the river among highrises looks very nice on a postcard, but the nuisance factor could wind up being quite damaging once the honeymoon phase ends.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Stainless

I think it would be a nightmare. Probably 85% of this city's population lives outside of walking distance to a CTrain station, and the Park-and-Ride lots are legendary for property crime and are often comically undersized. I've lived in three different neighborhoods in Calgary (N, SW and SE), and getting to this new complex via CTrain would be an absolute pain in the ass from all three.

I truly do not understand this bizarre love affair with downtown stadiums and arenas in Canadian cities that really don't have a meaningful light rail infrastructure. Yes, a glittering stadium on the river among highrises looks very nice on a postcard, but the nuisance factor could wind up being quite damaging once the honeymoon phase ends.

How would it be any more of a pain in the ass than McMahon/Saddledome are now?

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by davidivivid

Not sure if these have been posted before:

Magnifique! C'est une belle réussite!