Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by ZeDgE

Yea.. we are not seeing a new stadium or arena for another decade at least.. Lucky you Edmonton, getting in when you did. Sigh..

I think an arena will get built but not with 5 years

Honestly I feel bad for you Calgarians. They didn't Give you anything to get excited about at all. Not even a decent Concept of the Arena (that is already funded sort of) They just focused on the field house Because this was all a ploy to gain funding like I said before. And why wouldn't you go to city council first and say "hey this is the vision... these are our plans....Here's our funding model...what are the challenges on your end and what are the options to mitigate them?" Your basically asking the city to spend up to a billion dollars up front with the land clean up,venue funding and surrounding area.

Instead they just pissed everyone off yet again with yet another empty stir of the pot. The only difference is this one had a few sketches and a funding model that isn't gonna happen. Congrats Calgary you've been kinged once again

my messege to the flames...Break ground on a Modest arena that you can afford and stop messing around with this field house nonsense

[osmo]

Calgary Mayor highlights many of my doubts. King is just trolling the public here with this proposal and of course who is going to pay to clean and service the land? Why would Calgary pay $500 million+ for this when they could build a fieldhouse for $25 million and call it a day.

King has no leverage. This might not end well.

[Boris2k7]

If Calgary Sports Entertainment Corp. really wants this facility, then they can come back with a less outrageous financing arrangement. One that puts a lot more of their own money on the line.

[blueandgoldguy]

Those are very basic renders of the inside of the facility. The arena render with the lower bowl and the four rings of seats/suites looks like something a high schooler would render on a home computer. These will drastically change obviously.

Nice to see Eric Francis is firmly in the back pocket of Flames' ownership.

According to the descriptions of each facility, the Fieldhouse will allow for the retractable seats to cover the track so people will not be too far from the action on the field like Commonwealth.

If Calgarians and City Council accept this deal (which they won't thankfully), they will be effed in the a as much as the good folks in Edmonton.

Gotta love how King piggybacks on the city plan of a $200 million fieldhouse to propose his $400 plus million dome stadium. People will see right through that.

There is also the little matter of the folks in the West Village. They will scrutinize these development plans just like the Friends of Lansdowne did in Ottawa.

Since this is a preliminary proposal, I think we are 8 - 10 years away from the complete build, whether or not that includes a new home for the Stamps. I wonder if we will subtle threats from King and co. if negotiations don't occur to their liking as they did with Katz ie. ownership "trips" to arenas in Houston, Kansas, Portland.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Those are very basic renders of the inside of the facility. The arena render with the lower bowl and the four rings of seats/suites looks like something a high schooler would render on a home computer. These will drastically change obviously.

Nice to see Eric Francis is firmly in the back pocket of Flames' ownership.

According to the descriptions of each facility, the Fieldhouse will allow for the retractable seats to cover the track so people will not be too far from the action on the field like Commonwealth.

If Calgarians and City Council accept this deal (which they won't thankfully), they will be effed in the a as much as the good folks in Edmonton.

Gotta love how King piggybacks on the city plan of a $200 million fieldhouse to propose his $400 plus million dome stadium. People will see right through that.

There is also the little matter of the folks in the West Village. They will scrutinize these development plans just like the Friends of Lansdowne did in Ottawa.

Since this is a preliminary proposal, I think we are 8 - 10 years away from the complete build, whether or not that includes a new home for the Stamps. I wonder if we will subtle threats from King and co. if negotiations don't occur to their liking as they did with Katz ie. ownership "trips" to arenas in Houston, Kansas, Portland.

Doubtful, This is more about the Stamps than the flames. Maybe it will be trips to Halifax and Quebec city

[GreatTallNorth2]

From a design point of view, I'm not sure the Calgary proposal is very appealing and I'm not sure it could be altered to look any better.

[esquire]

I've had some time to mull it over and I think I have to side with some of the critics here... I know the drawings presented are not detailed architectural renderings but really just an illustration of the concept, but just the same it gives the impression that the Stamps would be playing in an overgrown CIS fieldhouse. For the amount of money being sunk into the fieldhouse component, I wonder if Calgary wouldn't be better off building a better pro-calibre open-air stadium instead?

I'm sure the arena will probably be fine, though... looks like it would inevitably be the standard modern NHL arena with everything that entails.

Also, looks like Nenshi really dumped some cold water on the idea too... I think Calgary is lucrative enough of a hockey market that teams don't have the same amount of leverage that they do in smaller markets, where the "build us a venue or we move the team" threat is routinely used to great effect.

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I think an arena will get built but not with 5 years

Honestly I feel bad for you Calgarians. They didn't Give you anything to get excited about at all. Not even a decent Concept of the Arena (that is already funded sort of) They just focused on the field house Because this was all a ploy to gain funding like I said before. And why wouldn't you go to city council first and say "hey this is the vision... these are our plans....Here's our funding model...what are the challenges on your end and what are the options to mitigate them?" Your basically asking the city to spend up to a billion dollars up front with the land clean up,venue funding and surrounding area.

Instead they just pissed everyone off yet again with yet another empty stir of the pot. The only difference is this one had a few sketches and a funding model that isn't gonna happen. Congrats Calgary you've been kinged once again

my messege to the flames...Break ground on a Modest arena that you can afford and stop messing around with this field house nonsense

Nailed it.

After seeing all the initial renderings and looking at the full scope of of this project as is...I can safely say I'm not a big fan as it stands now.

Next Batter.

[logan5]

Sorry but this is so over the top gimmicky. Why not a simple but tasteful open air stadium that is committed only to football and Soccer. A stadium designed for soccer in a city that will soon have a population of 1.5 million people would get MLS's attention. A lot of these new 20 to 30 000 seat stadiums look fantastic.

[nas1787]

Reading through the last 5 pages of this thread has been really interesting. The reaction started very positively, but then as more details emerged, the consensus quickly became negative. I'm curious to see how the general public's view differs from you lot.

[Chadillaccc]

I think the renders are pretty preliminary. The design is obviously there but they clearly haven't worked out the engineering so the design will change for sure. Hopefully they seek a huge amount of public input as all large projects in Calgary do and they incorporate these ideas into the final design. If the city is going to put any money into this, they'll need to listen to us. If Calgary Transit can do it, so can they

[Coldrsx]

Reminder

Funding Model
City Council has approved the master agreement negotiated by the City and the Katz Group (owner of the Edmonton Oilers), to build a new arena in downtown Edmonton.

The agreement sets the design and construction budget for the arena at $480-million and will not result in increased property taxes or a reallocation of civic infrastructure dollars.

1. $130-million from the Katz Group
The Katz Group will provide $130-million of financing for the arena. They will contribute another $100-million, subject to commercial viability, to spark development in an entertainment area adjacent to the arena.

2. $125-million from a ticket surcharge
$125-million would be raised through a surcharge per ticket for every event held in a new arena. The fee will be administered by the Katz Group, who will remit $125-million to the City towards the cost of construction, plus a $1.5-million annual contribution to the City for ongoing major capital expenditures.

3. $200-million contribution from the City
The City will contribute $200-million towards this project, a portion of which will be raised through a community revitalization levy (CRL).

The downtown CRL will fund $120-million of the City’s contribution. The other $80-million will be funded through the increase in parking revenues from City-owned parking near the arena, property taxes on the arena, and redirecting the subsidy that the City currently pays to Rexall Place to the downtown arena.

4. Other sources
Members of the Capital Region Board representing 95% of the region's population supported Edmonton in applying for its allocation under the provincial Regional Collaboration Program. The City will submit the application as soon as the program's guidelines are defined. 

http://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/projects_redevelopment/arena-funding-model.aspx

More detailed.

http://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/projects_redevelopment/the-agreement.aspx

[Prometheus]

From a CFL perspective, Tim Horton's Field's uninspired, bare bones (but open air, football-specific) design is more attractive than this domed, mixed-use proposal. This is a letdown for the Stampeders and the CFL.

[Chadillaccc]

I dunno, I think it looks pretty cool. With a bit of tweeking it could look awesome. I'm not huge on how the stands are so low on the north side, but hopefully that could be fixed with a bit of engineering brilliance Here's the best shot I've seen so far of the south side of the stands. Not crazy at all about the completely opaque, convention-centre-looking roof though...





http://calgaryherald.com/gallery/photos-flames-pitch-arena-stadium-project-for-downtown-calgary

[trueviking]

it doesn't matter that the images are preliminary...the concept sucks....you can do better calgary.

I'm sure the arena will be great but that stadium is brutal....it will be like watching football in a convention centre....those types of facilities are terrible (fargodome). Build a real open air stadium and separate field house.

multi-purpose facilities are so 1980's...we've moved on.

Cities tear these types of facilities down now...they don't build new ones....to use the word 'world-class' is laughable....maybe in 1986.

I'm also personally not a fan of urban stadiums. They are not good neighbourhood builders.

[esquire]

^ With regard to the stadium part of the concept, the exterior is NFL calibre, but the interior is more NCAA FCS. I'm sure the Jacksonville State Gamecocks look on with great envy.

Having most of the seating stacked on one side of the field like that is inexcusable in a new build. Take it back to the shop.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by trueviking

it will be like watching football in a convention centre....

Good analogy. That's what it looks like. If it's built as illustrated, within two years of opening people will be staying away on account of the lack of atmosphere that will inevitably result.

[trueviking]

^ yeah. nobody builds solid roof domes anymore....domes have killed the fan experience in every sport....its time to move past it.

A $500m arena and $250m open air stadium somewhere else makes much more sense....the rest can build you a really nice fieldhouse/convention facility.

[ZeDgE]

I would take an exact replica of Winnipeg's stadium in a heart beat.

After seeing more conceptions of this it is not very flattering, its quite ugly imo. I know its not a final design or anything but still.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by trueviking

it doesn't matter that the images are preliminary...the concept sucks....you can do better calgary.

I'm sure the arena will be great but that stadium is brutal....it will be like watching football in a convention centre....those types of facilities are terrible (fargodome). Build a real open air stadium and separate field house.

multi-purpose facilities are so 1980's...we've moved on.

Cities tear these types of facilities down now...they don't build new ones....to use the word 'world-class' is laughable....maybe in 1986.

I'm also personally not a fan of urban stadiums. They are not good neighbourhood builders.

But... But it'll define Calgary as a world-class city

My opinion on this proposal: too much gimmick for what this city actually needs. I'm not even sure Scotiabank Saddledome needs to be replaced. If it does, then no need for Calgary to build a world-class arena, just build something that looks good in the 250-300M range and everything will be fine. As for McMahon, that's another project.

Good on mayor Nenshi for keeping his city in perspective and not getting too excited with crazy, over-the-top concepts. Especially when there are public funds involved.

I understand why Calgarians are excited by this but I find it much better to build a functional and pleasant arena before one that is only architecturally appealing.