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  #6781  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2015, 10:50 PM
Simplicity Simplicity is offline
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Me too, mine is 2000s vintage. What's interesting is that it tends to be the middling neighbourhoods where you see a lot of this sort of development - at least as far as I can tell. Until recently, you could buy a run down old house in Riverview for not much more than $100K, making a demo and rebuild relatively economical.
Money, homie. You can find a 25' infill lot for $90-$100k provided somebody has split a 50'. You see far less infill development on 40'-50' lots because the cost of the lot becomes ~$220K + demo, plus, plus, plus. It's actually pretty expensive to do infill if you're looking for a comparable home/property you'd find in the suburbs.

Just for comparison sake, the lots in Pointe Hebert were ~$185K and they were all funny lots running between 31'-33'. Those houses ended up being somewhere on the order of ~1300-~1600 sq ft as an average and were retailing somewhere between $600-$750K. By the time you're done with GST and land transfer tax, you're talking about a lot that's $200k+ and you and your neighbour can shake hands through the window.

Now go to Bridgwater where you'll get a 40' lot for ~$140K and a similarly finished house will retail somewhere on the order of ~$430-$450K. So the new car smell is coming in a lot more cheaply out in the suburbs and it probably has a lot more to do with the availability of lots, the multitude of builders competing with one another, and the fact that the land has likely been held for 30 years. And, you have a reasonably sized lot. Infill lots sell at today's market value with a house on them. New lots in a subdivision sell under very different circumstances.

The newer subdivisions are actually quite dense comparatively speaking, and it's the market driving it. Land development is getting absurdly expensive given the costs of the actual development and the conditions being demanded by the city. So the market is kinda working its way through. Developers can't sell a 50' or 60' lot in a subdivision to save their lives anymore, so they're down to mostly 40's and subdivided rowhouses. That's a density you'd have never found in the 80's and 90's. Hell, you can barely find it from 1940 on.
     
     
  #6782  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2015, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tacheguy View Post
The growth of the burbs in my view has been driven by the strong preference most young people have for new homes. That is where the affordable new homes are. There is no inherent desire to live in a treeless farmer's field. It is the new house. I have done it twice, as have the vast majority of my contemporaries. Until recently there was really no choice other than undertaking some formidable addition/remodelling project.
I do believe that, given a choice, most young people would prefer to have their new home located more centrally. I have been quite struck by the number of young families moving into those infill home in North St. B. They can't seem to build them fast enough. And from what I understand the prices are very high. I think infill is going to become a much more prominent feature of this city in the future. And that to me is a very good thing. Mix the old with the new!
A note about the practicalities of infill re-development/renovation: where the financing is concerned, you need a much stronger cash position to do this sort of thing. If you're buying a home and tearing it down, barring a very solid financial position, the bank won't let you do the average 10% and then carry on with a construction mortgage. They'll only finance 50% of the value of the land. If you buy the house for $200K and they appraise the land at $100K, that's $100K cash you need, plus another 20% for the construction of the house, plus you have to be living somewhere while the house comes up. It's gets to be quite expensive. And this is generally why you see homebuilders doing it and rarely Joe Q. Public.

As far as the renovation goes, you can always buy a house and apply for a mortgage top up that essentially financing you to an 'as improved' value. But then you have to be incredibly smart about where and what you buy. If you purchase the home with next to no equity, you still have to maintain the ratio as you go. So if you decide to buy a house for $350K with 10% down (Plus CMHC, Plus closing, plus, plus, plus, as you know...) and you need to put $100K into the house to 'make it yours', so to speak, then A) The bank has to find a comparable in the area that justifies the $450K investment you'll be holding onto (which can be difficult), but also; B) You need to come up with another $10K+ to keep yourself in good stead with the bank and to top up your CMHC. And that's only if things go perfectly as planned where you're only out of the house for the 6-8 mths the contractor originally promised and where they find nothing else wrong with the house. Neither of those things ever happen! Oftentimes the more likely scenario is that the bank lets you go to a certain point and makes you pick up the difference. 'Improvements' don't often mean a full gut and reno on the bank's tab, so you're back into pocket

So when you're making the comparison, you're likely getting a smaller house with a whole ton of hassle, more risk, and you ended up owning a house that likely can't sell for what you're into it for. On the other hand, you go to Gino's Homes and they build you a house for $450K and that's it. It's warranted and it's brand new.

It's not the way I live, but I see the appeal.
     
     
  #6783  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2015, 11:41 PM
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Thanks for those cost comparisons. They confirm to me that people are willing to pay a hefty premium to live in a modern home central neighbourhood.

Not sure what the implications of that are from an economic impact perspective. The densification impacts are probably minimal as you are replacing one house with another (except I suppose where the Ernie Walter approach occurs). The income effects are perhaps positive, although the new residents are likely "house poor" compared to the previous residents and might not provide much of a local consumer boost. The only clear impact to me is that an area becomes much younger and the schools become used to capacity. Policy implications? I don't really see them...but then again I am retired and loosing my edge
     
     
  #6784  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 2:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Tacheguy View Post
Thanks for those cost comparisons. They confirm to me that people are willing to pay a hefty premium to live in a modern home central neighbourhood.

Not sure what the implications of that are from an economic impact perspective. The densification impacts are probably minimal as you are replacing one house with another (except I suppose where the Ernie Walter approach occurs). The income effects are perhaps positive, although the new residents are likely "house poor" compared to the previous residents and might not provide much of a local consumer boost. The only clear impact to me is that an area becomes much younger and the schools become used to capacity. Policy implications? I don't really see them...but then again I am retired and loosing my edge
Yeah, there's really not much unless you're looking at real density increases that can create critical mass for new and better services. But an example like Pointe Hebert is one of a handful of examples where you get new housing without displacing old, so the rezoning of old commercial and industrial lands can actually contribute pretty significantly on a more granular basis. Of course, in order to do that, you'd need a brownfield strategy and we've lagged behind most major municipalities where that's concerned...
     
     
  #6785  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 3:57 AM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Yes, you are right to some degree... the desire for a new home is certainly part of the appeal of suburbia. But infill homes are delivering the best of both worlds.

I have lived in Riverview for the past 6 years and during that period there has always been an infill house under construction (sometimes two or three at once) somewhere in the confines of my neighbourhood. In addition to that, quite a number of houses have been completely gutted and renovated to the point where they are practically as good as new.
Why are some of the houses along Wellington Cres. being torn down and rebuilt? One day I should take a photo of each house, just in case some owner decides to tear it down... just to "see" what they took out.
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  #6786  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 12:21 PM
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One of those houses burned down recently and is being replaced.
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  #6787  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 1ajs View Post
318 ross got its power cut off by the city today

the city is kinda being a dick but now im off hunting for a new roof and sadened by the loss of a community i was part off i called home for 2 yrs
as result it sounds like the residential project is now being forced to move forward with this building and frame will need to find a new place to call home
Context. Looks like you were living there illegally. Can't really feel sorry for you.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/w...y-after-building-deemed-unsafe-1.3194362
     
     
  #6788  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 1:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jimj_wpg View Post
Why are some of the houses along Wellington Cres. being torn down and rebuilt? One day I should take a photo of each house, just in case some owner decides to tear it down... just to "see" what they took out.
Actually, quite a few of the homes on Wellington that have been torn down - excepting Asper's - have been pretty ramshackle. They looked like beautiful old character mansions from the outside, but they were dilapidated in a lot of ways including structurally.
     
     
  #6789  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 1:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
Actually, quite a few of the homes on Wellington that have been torn down - excepting Asper's - have been pretty ramshackle. They looked like beautiful old character mansions from the outside, but they were dilapidated in a lot of ways including structurally.
I would say at least a dozen properties have had multi-million dollar tear downs and rebuilds occur on Wellington.
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  #6790  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 2:48 PM
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I would say at least a dozen properties have had multi-million dollar tear downs and rebuilds occur on Wellington.
Sure, because the land itself is getting close to $1MM. Case in point: 1191 Wellington Crescent. The house is a beautiful 3520 sq ft grain mansion built in 1927 sitting on 33,000 sq ft of land and 100' frontage. Looking at it from the street, you'd wonder why it's been for sale twice in the last 5 years selling in 2010 for $740K and in 2014 for $900k. But the house is barely livable. It's not completely structurally sound and it needs a total gut and renovation to get it standing straight and up to par for a home on the nicest street in Winnipeg in 2015. But the house was bought to be torn down by the owner of Pizza Hotline who did the same thing to a home on the other side - an equally derelict home - at the corner of Campbell and Wellington.

But excepting Bugas'/Asper's house which is now laughably on the market for $11MM (and maybe Tony Canosa's), we're only now getting to the point where $1MM properties are being purchased for tear-down. There are only a few properties on the Crescent that could even command north of say $2MM in their finished, updated form. Sifton's/Pallister's house would be a top 5 property on the Crescent and it only generated a $2.2MM sale price after sitting for over 3 years and it's 9000 square feet of beautiful addition and nearly full remodel in the old style.
     
     
  #6791  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 3:04 PM
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^ Just googled 1191 Wellington... it's amazing that such a grandiose house evolved to look so unremarkable on the inside. Has it been demolished yet?
     
     
  #6792  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 3:25 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Just googled 1191 Wellington... it's amazing that such a grandiose house evolved to look so unremarkable on the inside. Has it been demolished yet?
Nah, still standing, but vacant.

It's one of my favorite homes on the crescent and its location and angle on the property makes it even nicer. But these old mansions require huge amounts of ongoing maintenance. If you have a elderly couple living in it for 20 years where they haven't the energy nor money to keep it where it should be, they devolve fast.

Actually, I've heard the Everett Mansion is coming for sale soon. That'll be an interesting story 'cause that house is on the worst part of the Crescent (directly adjacent St. Mary's), it's almost 9000 square feet on a smallish lot, and needs probably $2.5MM to bring it up. But who's going to pay that?
     
     
  #6793  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by h0twired View Post
Context. Looks like you were living there illegally. Can't really feel sorry for you.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/w...y-after-building-deemed-unsafe-1.3194362
Didn't surprise me its just how the city officials have been talking to some people arise and tone wise that's all of they had just stuck to the original 45 days instead of changing it to 3 days I wouldn't of cared as much as it creates more annoyances the. Anything and stress everyone on the building was starting to pack up and get ready to move as a result of the first bunch of us stopes staying here overnight when the original order hit knew this could happen. but why did the city allow this space to go for 6 yrs and not nock 4yrs ago when it pulled its first liquor licence.....
     
     
  #6794  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 7:03 PM
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^^ Aren't liquor licenses a provincial matter which the City might not be aware of at the time?
     
     
  #6795  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 7:11 PM
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^^ Aren't liquor licenses a provincial matter which the City might not be aware of at the time?
That, and it's not the MLLC/LGA's responsibility to report illegal residences... if they even noticed or knew what to look for in the first place. The liquor permit was taken away because they barely met any requirements like bathroom minimums and even having running water in the room.

I don't really know how they got one in the first place. My guess is that they were approved for that back room where they often did dinners, but probably had it stripped for serving in the many other inadequate facilities/rooms they had there.
     
     
  #6796  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2015, 12:34 AM
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noticed this in the paper on the weekend.

     
     
  #6797  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2015, 2:08 AM
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noticed this in the paper on the weekend.
Interesting - I thought I remembered reading on here that FWS/Sunstone was doing something on Tache - could they be planning two developments at the same time?
     
     
  #6798  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2015, 2:11 AM
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is that the dennistoun site in OV?
     
     
  #6799  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2015, 2:19 AM
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That, and it's not the MLLC/LGA's responsibility to report illegal residences... if they even noticed or knew what to look for in the first place. The liquor permit was taken away because they barely met any requirements like bathroom minimums and even having running water in the room.

I don't really know how they got one in the first place. My guess is that they were approved for that back room where they often did dinners, but probably had it stripped for serving in the many other inadequate facilities/rooms they had there.
it was temp one for each event like weddings quite a few happend in there
     
     
  #6800  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2015, 4:46 AM
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it was temp one for each event like weddings quite a few happend in there
So it never had one then. It didn't get "pulled" — if you want to have block party in your neighbourhood you need the same licence.
     
     
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