DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

The way that building protrudes out over 17th Street and interrupts the street-wall is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me for some reason. I just want to push it back in. (I suspect I'm the only one in the world that feels this way and everyone else probably loves it, so there's no need to reprove me.) Doesn't the airspace above a property, public or private, count as part of the property? Are they really allowed to do this?

As others have mentioned, the building does not cross the sidewalk/property plane. The angled facade is all interior to the property line.

And from what I've heard, this project is moving through the development process. All signs point to it becoming reality.

[PLANSIT]

More infill for CPV:

Site Address and Description

2015PM0000458 - Parkside - 1800 Little Raven

This is actually the empty lot off 19th.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

As others have mentioned, the building does not cross the sidewalk/property plane. The angled facade is all interior to the property line.

And from what I've heard, this project is moving through the development process. All signs point to it becoming reality.

Weird. I don't know why I have trouble seeing that, lol. If I block the left side of the rendering with my hand, it starts to look like that vertical line that goes straight up from the 999 sign is the far edge of the building. But when I unblock it, that vertical line looks like it's coming toward the viewer, toward a point that is protruding out from the building. Anyway, that's good to know. I like the project way more now.

It's also great to hear this thing's likely to become a reality. The CBD needs more residents and more people walking around at night.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

The CBD needs more residents and more people walking around at night.

The CBD needs an effing Target.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

Weird. I don't know why I have trouble seeing that, lol. If I block the left side of the rendering with my hand, it starts to look like that vertical line that goes straight up from the 999 sign is the far edge of the building. But when I unblock it, that vertical line looks like it's coming toward the viewer, toward a point that is protruding out from the building. Anyway, that's good to know. I like the project way more now.

It's also great to hear this thing's likely to become a reality. The CBD needs more residents and more people walking around at night.

Does this help?

[seventwenty]

Pretty sure effing Targets were outlawed by the Victorians, Ryan.

[bcp]

Love it..love the funky crystal glass..haven't many been screaming for something different?

[BG918]

Originally Posted by bcp

Love it..love the funky crystal glass..haven't many been screaming for something different?

I'd love it more if it was 20 stories taller, but alas it will be good infill on one of the worst surface lots downtown.

I heard yesterday Rocky Mtn PBS is going to move to 21st & Arapahoe building a new studio and office on a parking lot there. Not exactly sure which one, possibly part or the entire half block between 20th & 21st. Their existing home at 11th & Bannock (and adjacent parking lot) will then be redeveloped into more residential.

[DownhomeDenver]

Looks like another hotel could be coming to downtown:

http://www.businessden.com/2015/08/06/hotel-chain-books-downtown-location/

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

Looks like another hotel could be coming to downtown:

http://www.businessden.com/2015/08/06/hotel-chain-books-downtown-location/

You just REALLY helped me defend a blank wall, thank you.

From: Upper Downtown: Hyatt Place/Hyatt House Hotel Update #6





Here's some of the other, nice side.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

The CBD needs more residents and more people walking around at night.

Originally Posted by RyanD

The CBD needs an effing Target.

These are the same problem. More people would live downtown (and therefore walk around at night) if there were a place downtown to buy reasonably priced milk, underwear, and bookcases.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

These are the same problem. More people would live downtown (and therefore walk around at night) if there were a place downtown to buy reasonably priced milk, underwear, and bookcases.

BUT Target won't come if there are no people in the CBD to buy said reasonably priced milk, underwear, and bookcases. So is Target the egg and people the chicken?

[NIMBY] I'm sick of all the downtown folks at my Glendale Target on the weekends. Place is a nightmare. [/NIMBY]

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

These are the same problem. More people would live downtown (and therefore walk around at night) if there were a place downtown to buy reasonably priced milk, underwear, and bookcases.

More people would live downtown if there were places to live downtown. That don't cost $2,600 for a 1-bedroom. If I could afford that, I could afford to have somebody hard carve me a teakwood bookcase.

I don't give a shit about retail downtown anymore. Our market is too far gone for me to care where the ultra-wealthy buy their ultra-soft toilet paper.

Maybe Trump will build us a Target (he can still afford to enter our fair city). The Mexican government can send up a truckload of illegals and leftover building materials from the wall project I hear they're going to be funding. Trump Target Downtown Denver.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by RyanD

So is Target the egg and people the chicken?

Retail does typically (but not always) lag behind population, this is true. Downtowns have the added complication of daytime worker population, which doesn't buy as many grills but does account for some buying.

It would be interesting to know what sort of population requirements Target has for its various brands. Yeah, the requirements for one its 140,000 square foot megastores are probably pretty high, but the requirements for an 80,000 sf CityTarget or a 30,000 sf TargetExpress should be correspondingly lower.

Originally Posted by bunt_q

More people would live downtown if there were places to live downtown. I don't give a shit about retail downtown anymore.

Fine, fair enough. Capitol Hill, then. Apartments.com shows plenty of middle class apartments available there for half your stated rental price. Plenty of land at about Colfax and Washington.

Affordability is a big problem. It's not the only problem.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

More people would live downtown if there were places to live downtown. That don't cost $2,600 for a 1-bedroom. If I could afford that, I could afford to have somebody hard carve me a teakwood bookcase.

Wait, aren't you a lawyer? I thought all lawyers were filthy rich and had hand-carved teakwood bookcases. You're lawyering wrong.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Retail does typically (but not always) lag behind population, this is true. Downtowns have the added complication of daytime worker population, which doesn't buy as many grills but does account for some buying.

It would be interesting to know what sort of population requirements Target has for its various brands. Yeah, the requirements for one its 140,000 square foot megastores are probably pretty high, but the requirements for an 80,000 sf CityTarget or a 30,000 sf TargetExpress should be correspondingly lower.


Fine, fair enough. Capitol Hill, then. Apartments.com shows plenty of middle class apartments available there for half your stated rental price. Plenty of land at about Colfax and Washington.

Affordability is a big problem. It's not the only problem.

I was mostly being a smart a**. If I were Target, I'd be breaking my lease in Sheridan - what a debacle that store must be for them, although I do love having a Target all to myself - and looking hard for a central site.

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

Wait, aren't you a lawyer? I thought all lawyers were filthy rich and had hand-carved teakwood bookcases. You're lawyering wrong.

Ha, too true. I am indeed.

[mhays]

$2,600 renters are not necessarily making tons of money. Many are making $70,000 and simply paying more than half of their takehome for housing. That sort of thing is common as a city grows and densifies.

A Target might make sense, but it sounds like a couple supermarkets are coming, so that chips away at the justification.

Still the pluses are piling up with the office, resident, and visitor populations all rising.

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by mhays

$2,600 renters are not necessarily making tons of money. Many are making $70,000 and simply paying more than half of their takehome for housing. That sort of thing is common as a city grows and densifies.

A Target might make sense, but it sounds like a couple supermarkets are coming, so that chips away at the justification.

Still the pluses are piling up with the office, resident, and visitor populations all rising.

True.

I've said this before and I will say it again. I have lived in Lohi the past 4 years, and now about to move into Lodo and I don't NEED a Target. Sure, if there was one there, I'd probably go to it, but downtown people don't buy underwear from Target and King Sooper's is fine for Toilet Paper. I currently buy toilet paper from Vitamin Cottage and its not the soft kind.

As for $2,600 rent. Yes, that is expensive for 1 earner unless you make bank. Try finding a girlfriend, wife, roomate, life partner, etc. I couldn't live downtown on my own but with my wife and I combined and only 1 car, sure, its doable.

My new place is less than that and its a brick and timber over 1700sq ft with 2 car parking. There are deals to be had if you look hard.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

My new place is less than that and its a brick and timber over 1700sq ft with 2 car parking. There are deals to be had if you look hard.

Ajax Lofts?

[bunt_q]

Nevermind. I'm apparently the only one who thinks it's a problem, spending half one's income on housing to live in a mediocre City with tons of buildable land and crazy growth, but no housing. We couldn't be doing anything wrong, we're Denver the amazing, we're the best.