They could have just as easily called it rapid transit and still been correct.
Call it rapid transit if you want but it's light rail... I don't see why people get so offended when one transit line isn't qualified as rapid transit, it's not an insult... The reason why Toronto is building so many of these new LRT lines (Crosstown, Finch West, Sheppard East) is because it costs a lot less to build light rail than rapid transit.
Call it rapid transit if you want but it's light rail... I don't see why people get so offended when one transit line isn't qualified as rapid transit, it's not an insult... The reason why Toronto is building so many of these new LRT lines (Crosstown, Finch West, Sheppard East) is because it costs a lot less to build light rail than rapid transit.
Rapid transit is synonym for metro. GO Lakeshore although fast and grade-separated does not qualify as rapid transit due to lack of metro frequency. But there are system like GO that have become true rapid transit such as Bart and Berlin S-Bahn.
Rapid transit doesn't need to be a black and white thing. Modern light rail compared to traditional light rail (streetcar) does have some rapid transit measures such as limited stop and high frequency and longer trains. It's the same with bus rapid transit vs. regular bus. It's not true rapdi transit but it has features of rapid transit.
Ultimately, the term rapid transit or metro is about the capacity of the line. Grade-separations, higher speed, higher frequency, longer trains, they all mean higher capacity and more riders. Modern LRT is definitely a step toward rapid transit compared with regular buses, this can't be denied.
Keep in mind that you can you light rail style vehicles for services that qualify as rapid transit, streetcar or commuter rail. You can also you rapid transit or subway-style rolling stock for things like commuter rail.
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Your post does a great job of demonstrating why it's so confusing and I agree 100%. The official terms may be very helpful for planners and engineers, but for the end users, it's best to focus on things like travel times and headways. And let's face it - there's often a great deal of overlap between the different modes so it's best for many of us to ignore the other details.
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"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw Don't ask people not to debate a topic. Just stop making debatable assertions. Problem solved.
When it comes to what constitutes "rapid transit" that can mean anything from BRT to LRT to Metro.
As far as easily defining things , well it's much more difficult than it use to be. Vancouver's SkyTrain is considered Metro even though it's ALRT. Manila's LRT is considered full Metro while Calgary's and even Edmonton's, with it's subway section downtown, isn't.
Full Metro means 2 things..............total grade separation and electrified trains and that's it. Where it becomes murky is when systems are electrified and have grade separation but don't have standard subway/Metro frequency such as soon to be electrified GO or the current Mel/Syd suburban rail systems. Many of the routes there are totally grade separated {especially Sydney} but only run every half hour but as the lines converge closer to downtown the frequency goes to every 3 minutes.
Technically, however, all a Metro has is grade separation and electrification. In terms of the real world and the needs of passengers, 99% of people couldn't care less what it technically is referred to or the technology used including BRT.
If you can get from A to B in 15 minutes, nobody cares if it's by bus, commuter rail, Metro, LRT, or horse & buggy. At that point is really comes down to frequency and when service is less than a MAXIMUM of every 10 minutes all day then it really isn't that rapid.
UPX to and fro over the weekend, such a nice link.
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Well and with Calgary's LRT its downtown stops every few blocks is almost street car stop frequency whereas out in the burbs its more like the GO Train, more commuter with some stops almost 3km apart.
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Call it rapid transit if you want but it's light rail... I don't see why people get so offended when one transit line isn't qualified as rapid transit, it's not an insult... The reason why Toronto is building so many of these new LRT lines (Crosstown, Finch West, Sheppard East) is because it costs a lot less to build light rail than rapid transit.
Who's offended? The second the LRT goes underground it's no different from any RT line. Also $5.3 billion is more expensive then almost any Rapid Transit line in the country.
I think people are differentiating it because they're viewing the line as a whole rather than just the underground section. It's very common for light rail systems to have underground sections. SF Muni Metro, Porto Metro, Boston Green Line, Edmonton LRT etc. The full RT lines don't have large non-grade separated surface sections, which is how they're different.
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"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw Don't ask people not to debate a topic. Just stop making debatable assertions. Problem solved.
I think people are differentiating it because they're viewing the line as a whole rather than just the underground section. It's very common for light rail systems to have underground sections. SF Muni Metro, Porto Metro, Boston Green Line, Edmonton LRT etc. The full RT lines don't have large non-grade separated surface sections, which is how they're different.
I think people are differentiating it because they're viewing the line as a whole rather than just the underground section. It's very common for light rail systems to have underground sections. SF Muni Metro, Porto Metro, Boston Green Line, Edmonton LRT etc. The full RT lines don't have large non-grade separated surface sections, which is how they're different.
That's how I feel. The moment a continuous line has one non-grade separated intersection, it's no longer a metro. To me, the Confederation Line will be a metro, while the Eglington Crosstown line will not. A distinction has to be made somewhere, because as others have pointed out speed and capacity are affected by lots of things other than grade separation.
Well I'm not sure sure that one non-grade separation would be the dividing line for me, considering that a number of RT systems like Paris Metro, Chicago L and several Tokyo lines that meet all others criteria have at least one level crossing. But if you have really significant sections like it's street running through for several km or has some fairly major, business streets that with level crossings than that is a defining factor of the system.
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"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw Don't ask people not to debate a topic. Just stop making debatable assertions. Problem solved.
For a Metro definition the easiest way to define it is if the line can, technically at least, be automated.
Calgary's CTrain is rapid transit LRT and not even close to GO rail.
This debate is useless but rapid transit and LRT are two different things, simple as that. A part of my study/work field is mass transit so I would know...
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Also $5.3 billion is more expensive then almost any Rapid Transit line in the country.
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