Calgary's $8 BILLION Transit Plan - The RouteAhead

[McMurph]

Originally Posted by DavidKuitunen

This project is slated for completion in 2024, and as of now most of the southern portion just doesn't seem feasible for an LRT line.

Completely agree. The south east leg in that video almost looks more like an intercity train than an LRT. I'm astounded (and happy) that it's getting built all at once, but once it's done we'll have enough brownfield TOD sites available for about a century of growth.

[Fuzz]

Are there any travel estimate times for trips from Seton to downtown? Seams it would be a long journey.

[YYCguys]

I think the travel estimates from Seton to Downtown will be around 35 minutes, down from the current 69?

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by McMurph

Completely agree. The south east leg in that video almost looks more like an intercity train than an LRT. I'm astounded (and happy) that it's getting built all at once, but once it's done we'll have enough brownfield TOD sites available for about a century of growth.

Seems about half of the SE LRT stations won't be required at opening. Can they rough them in and add once redevelopment occurs?

[CorporateWhore]

I'm not crazy about them extending the lines that far out...I feel like that just encourages more sprawl. Now people can build even further out than it is today. The biggest issue with sprawl is that it forces the city to stretch out its infrastructure, instead of upgrading/supporting it where it already exists.

I'd rather that money go into something like a tramline that goes east/west down the Beltline. Or towards a higher-quality crossing across the Bow.

Either way, good stuff. Nice going, J.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

I think the travel estimates from Seton to Downtown will be around 35 minutes, down from the current 69?

Sounds quicker than I would have thought with all those stops. Does it really only take 69 minutes to downtown from Seton right now? Or is that ideal conditions?

[CTrainDude]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sounds quicker than I would have thought with all those stops. Does it really only take 69 minutes to downtown from Seton right now? Or is that ideal conditions?

That's the time allotted for the current route 302 "BRT" to wander and weave it's way from the South Hospital to downtown. You could easily drive your personal vehicle off-peak in half the time.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

I'm not crazy about them extending the lines that far out...I feel like that just encourages more sprawl. Now people can build even further out than it is today. The biggest issue with sprawl is that it forces the city to stretch out its infrastructure, instead of upgrading/supporting it where it already exists.

I'd rather that money go into something like a tramline that goes east/west down the Beltline. Or towards a higher-quality crossing across the Bow.

Either way, good stuff. Nice going, J.

That argument would make sense if the city and developers hadn't already approved and planned massive greenfield and brownfield TOD's in the SE. Home builders and developers don't wait for an lrt to build. The development will occur regardless of the green line. Should all those people and businesses be deprived of decent transit because they either can't afford or don't choose to live inner city? If the goal is to reduce people's dependence on cars in this city then this can only be a good thing.

I'm starting to get really sick of people disparaging the SE like it's some exurb not worthy of city services. The new hospital is there for shit sakes! And like it or not so is a massive employment centre.

[MalcolmTucker]

As a city and province, we made the critical path decision back in the Lougheed era when Deerfoot's main route was jogged east at Anderson instead of continuing south across Fish Creek, due to the establishment of Fish Creek Park in 1975 and the government subsequently(or perhaps concurrently) deciding not to allow more bridges to cross it (the city was able to get a concession at the time to build 37th street in the future).

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

That argument would make sense if the city and developers hadn't already approved and planned massive greenfield and brownfield TOD's in the SE. Home builders and developers don't wait for an lrt to build. The development will occur regardless of the green line. Should all those people and businesses be deprived of decent transit because they either can't afford or don't choose to live inner city? If the goal is to reduce people's dependence on cars in this city then this can only be a good thing.

I'm starting to get really sick of people disparaging the SE like it's some exurb not worthy of city services. The new hospital is there for shit sakes! And like it or not so is a massive employment centre.

Agree that there will be great incentive to build on green/brownfield sites within the ring road. Hopefully that will slow sprawl a bit.

I hope the city decides not to extend the current lines much further out, but to focus on new lines (whether they be fully new or just spur lines, ex. to the airport) instead. In fact, I wish the outer boundary for C-Train service would have been Stoney, but Tuscany and South Health are already beyond that point (and service to South Health is very much needed).

Seriously, it has to stop somewhere (even if a freeze period of a decade or two is considered). The city needs to focus on areas that have been neglected for decades rather than extend service to brand new developments.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

Agree that there will be great incentive to build on green/brownfield sites within the ring road. Hopefully that will slow sprawl a bit.

I hope the city decides not to extend the current lines much further out, but to focus on new lines (whether they be fully new or just spur lines, ex. to the airport) instead. In fact, I wish the outer boundary for C-Train service would have been Stoney, but Tuscany and South Health are already beyond that point (and service to South Health is very much needed).

Seriously, it has to stop somewhere (even if a freeze period of a decade or two is considered). The city needs to focus on areas that have been neglected for decades rather than extend service to brand new developments.

Geographically the SE of the city is hemmed in by the Bow river as it turns eastward. South of that are Mcmansion communities like Artesia and Heritage Pointe. So realistically there is a limited stock of land past the hospital. Eastward is where I think there will be the most growth. Wasn't there a plan for a future community called Hotchkiss or something east of New Brighton? To me the sprawliest part of the city is the SW/NW from HWY8 past HWY 1. That's where you have all the semi acreage development and where a sizeable chunk of Calgary's nouveau rich seem to live.

[DizzyEdge]

As well past Tuscany are also estates, so I don't expect the NW line to expand for decades.

[artvandelay]

There's nothing wrong with sprawl as long as greenfield developments re designed in an efficient manner and the costs of development and servicing are allocated adequately.

[holhm22]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

As well past Tuscany are also estates, so I don't expect the NW line to expand for decades.

I don't expect the Red Line to expand at all in the NW anymore.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

There's nothing wrong with sprawl as long as greenfield developments re designed in an efficient manner and the costs of development and servicing are allocated adequately.

Semantics- but greenfield development and sprawl are not synonymous. Greenfield development is simply development on agricultural or natural land. Sprawl is development that is characterized by low-density and separation of uses that results in inefficient use of infrastructure and greater automobile dependency.

There is always something wrong with sprawl, but greenfield development doesn't have to be sprawl.

[DizzyEdge]

(offtopic) For me a perfect suburban community would be one designed like a small town: mainstreet retail, with adjacent LRT/BRT/or other transit stop which is surrouded by higher density development, maybe 4-6 story, slowly going lower density to the surrounding sfh areas. With some sort of interesting spots on that 'main street' retail that you might want to catch transit there on a Saturday afternoon. (/offtopic)

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

(offtopic) For me a perfect suburban community would be one designed like a small town: mainstreet retail, with adjacent LRT/BRT/or other transit stop which is surrouded by higher density development, maybe 4-6 story, slowly going lower density to the surrounding sfh areas. With some sort of interesting spots on that 'main street' retail that you might want to catch transit there on a Saturday afternoon. (/offtopic)

Sadly, I can hardly think of any development in Calgary that is like this. Around Saddletowne is about the only one that comes close. Amazingly, despite being planned around the LRT lines the suburbs built in the SE all turn their backs on the stations and it looks like it's just going to be huge park and rides at each one. Very disappointing.

[CCF]

Garrison Woods, like many New Urbanist communities, represents a 'better designed suburbia.' Of course - it doesn't have convenient access to LRT, but it's form should be a template for other new development within Calgary.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by fusili

Semantics- but greenfield development and sprawl are not synonymous. Greenfield development is simply development on agricultural or natural land. Sprawl is development that is characterized by low-density and separation of uses that results in inefficient use of infrastructure and greater automobile dependency.

There is always something wrong with sprawl, but greenfield development doesn't have to be sprawl.

Inner city areas with 50' and 60' wide lots and back alleys are great examples of sprawl by your definition, but others would say inner city cannot be sprawl by definition.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Sadly, I can hardly think of any development in Calgary that is like this. Around Saddletowne is about the only one that comes close. Amazingly, despite being planned around the LRT lines the suburbs built in the SE all turn their backs on the stations and it looks like it's just going to be huge park and rides at each one. Very disappointing.

Working on a project I believe will be a game changer. Also working on an exceptionally interesting Brownfield site. :-)