Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by Vin

Tons of people around the world have seen our viaducts via TV series and movies as they are one of the favourite shoot locations, and what's more, the viaducts serve as a vital link for coach/tourist buses, like the Pacific Coach Lines, zipping to and from downtown to the Terminal bus station. Loads of visitors, tourists and locals have benefited from this vital link.

So yeah, despite not having your sarcastic tale as the true version, the viaducts are still our urban heritage.

It's not a vital link It is a replaceable piece of infrastructure that is underutilized and seismically less than ideal. A vital link would be the Cambie Street bridge. You are overselling these things so much that it is almost comical.

They will find a different road arrangement that works fine for traffic that would normally use the viaduct. Coaches won't be stranded at the bus station and tourists don't care what road network takes them from the bus station to the downtown.

All of this love for a piece of infrastructure that has created a schism between neighbourhoods is strange. Vancouver is hardly the only city taking down or replacing bulky viaducts and elevated road networks. This is what big cities around the world are doing right now.

http://gizmodo.com/6-freeway-demolitions-that-changed-their-cities-forever-1548314937

[Vin]

Originally Posted by csbvan

It's not a vital link It is a replaceable piece of infrastructure that is underutilized and seismically less than ideal. A vital link would be the Cambie Street bridge. You are overselling these things so much that it is almost comical.

They will find a different road arrangement that works fine for traffic that would normally use the viaduct. Coaches won't be stranded at the bus station and tourists don't care what road network takes them from the bus station to the downtown.

All of this love for a piece of infrastructure that has created a schism between neighbourhoods is strange. Vancouver is hardly the only city taking down or replacing bulky viaducts and elevated road networks. This is what big cities around the world are doing right now.

http://gizmodo.com/6-freeway-demolitions-that-changed-their-cities-forever-1548314937

Personally, I always find it a joy driving into and out of the city via the viaducts, even if I'm stuck in traffic. The vistas are just fantastic. Not the same can be said while crawling along Pacific Boulevard heading towards Costco, especially on a games night. It can be rather nerve-wrecking. Oh, am I comically over-selling these things again? My my, I should stop.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Personally, I always find it a joy driving into and out of the city via the viaducts, even if I'm stuck in traffic. The vistas are just fantastic. Not the same can be said while crawling along Pacific Boulevard heading towards Costco, especially on a games night. It can be rather nerve-wrecking. Oh, am I comically over-selling these things again? My my, I should stop.

Actually I noticed driving along Pacific Blvd that the viaducts block some great views of the city and the mountains...

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You have to be kidding.

The Viaducts are a pretty big wasteland right now. They carry a limited amount of traffic over a few blocks of parking lots and other roads.

I think if you take a look at them on google maps (with sat images on), you can see what a joke they are, and how much prime land they are wasting.

They also serve as an artificial separate between downtown and Chinatown. That is a gap that should have long since been filled.

Hmmmmm....
So Andy Livingstone Park isn't a barrier (especially the sportsfield)?
or the BCHydro Substation?
or the SkyTrain Guideways?
or the wider proposed Expo / Pacific Boulevards - with all the extra redirected Georgia and Dunsmuir traffic?

[WBC]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Hmmmmm....
So Andy Livingstone Park isn't a barrier (especially the sportsfield)?
or the BCHydro Substation?
or the SkyTrain Guideways?
or the wider proposed Expo / Pacific Boulevards - with all the extra redirected Georgia and Dunsmuir traffic?

Never put facts in the way of real estate deals...

These things are as good as gone...To my dissatisfaction...Not much point in arguing this anymore.

The only good thing is that it seems that city has realized that they need to do a bit more then just remove the viaducts and put in the "super road" to improve traffic especially with the hospital coming in soon. So I am hopeful that they will do something like a Malkin connector.

The fact remains that traffic in this city is spectacularly bad for a small to medium sized North American city. And if there was a very strong regional push to deal with the problem using transit (and especially rapid transit) and road pricing I would be supportive of the viaduct removal. However, there isn't. We have a better then normal transit network for a NA city of this size, but a way below average road and in particularly freeway network. So the end result is horribly congested city with no hope of improvement any time soon (maybe car automation would be our savior but who knows).

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Actually I noticed driving along Pacific Blvd that the viaducts block some great views of the city and the mountains...

Then get on the viaducts! The views are way better, and it's free!

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

how can people say a freaking 8 lane road isn't a barrier? really? a highway width "stroad" isn't a barrier? cars are now separated from people and bikes. and now they will be all put together. talk about increasing chances of having accidents. and walking around there is quite nice the way it is i think. low amounts of road traffic, quiet because traffic is behind a concrete wall. and lets not forget it is covered space for the winter to get out of the rain.

the only reason the land isn't used now is because all the developers are waiting for a decision. look at all the stuff done for rogers arena, it looks pretty nice connected to the viaduct. whats going to happen to all of that? now there will be no people interaction in that part. this is a stupid waste of money put forward by the stupid elected officials who just want to make it easier to developers to build all the same condos that everyone complains about anyways.

you all better get used to "seafoam green spandrel" because there is going to be a ton more of it now.

[logan5]

Development in Chinatown, so far, is steering clear of green spandrel type buildings. Hopefully that will continue as we move towards development of the Viaduct Lands.

Even if the sole purpose of the dismantling of the viaducts was to free up land for development (which it's not), I would be fine with that. We have a treasure trove of historic buildings in Chinatown and the DTES waiting to be reactivated, but in order to do that we need to add thousands of new residents. The Viaduct Lands alone will add a couple thousand new residents.

The sooner the Viaducts come down and development starts, the better. Better for this fractured part of downtown, and much better for the dysfunctional DTES.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

how can people say a freaking 8 lane road isn't a barrier? really? a highway width "stroad" isn't a barrier? cars are now separated from people and bikes. and now they will be all put together. talk about increasing chances of having accidents. and walking around there is quite nice the way it is i think. low amounts of road traffic, quiet because traffic is behind a concrete wall. and lets not forget it is covered space for the winter to get out of the rain.

the only reason the land isn't used now is because all the developers are waiting for a decision. look at all the stuff done for rogers arena, it looks pretty nice connected to the viaduct. whats going to happen to all of that? now there will be no people interaction in that part. this is a stupid waste of money put forward by the stupid elected officials who just want to make it easier to developers to build all the same condos that everyone complains about anyways.

you all better get used to "seafoam green spandrel" because there is going to be a ton more of it now.

I walk that way to work every day, it is a brutal area of the city. It's easily the worst part of the walk. I don't think that the area of Rogers arena connected to the Viaduct...one entrance? is really that much of a loss considered how awful the rest of Rogers Arena is in terms of public realm. Have you been to the "plaza" at Rogers Arena, hidden under the gloom of the viaducts? It is sad that our downtown arena has no public realm whatsoever.


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/archive/index.php/t-151228-p-36.html

[theKB]

so what is the schedule of things to happen once they "decide" to move forward with this horrible plan? Will it be just like hornby with wrecking balls standing by waiting for the final council yes vote from Geoff Meggs?

Does translink still have the ultimate say? With the pending hospital would the province get to weigh in on this situation as well? The other big questions is what happens first, the tear down or the SUPER EPIC MEGA ROAD?!

And will Meggs start crusading against the ugly skytrain guideway next? (this question was a joke)...

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by csbvan

I walk that way to work every day, it is a brutal area of the city. It's easily the worst part of the walk. I don't think that the area of Rogers arena connected to the Viaduct...one entrance? is really that much of a loss considered how awful the rest of Rogers Arena is in terms of public realm. Have you been to the "plaza" at Rogers Arena, hidden under the gloom of the viaducts? It is sad that our downtown arena has no public realm whatsoever.


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/archive/index.php/t-151228-p-36.html

but it is only bad because the city doesn't want to do anything to use an excuse to say "oh its so bad we must take them down." you can do so much with that space but the city chooses not to so they can make a point and hope people don't look elsewhere for examples of this.

there is a lot of potential but they just choose not to see it since we all know they hate everything that is a vehicle.

I've walked it and really don't find it bad at all. there are worse areas i think. also, you know you can add light features under the viaducts. look at the renderings of the Granville Street Bridge by Vancouver House. why cant things like that be done? oh that's right, they can be but the city chooses not to.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Vin

Personally, I always find it a joy driving into and out of the city via the viaducts, even if I'm stuck in traffic. The vistas are just fantastic.

Switch to Skytrain, the views are even better.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Switch to Skytrain, the views are even better.

Not while underneath the viaduct!

Speaking of that, how long will the skytrain need to be out of service while they get rid of that little roller coaster bit?

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Not while underneath the viaduct!

Speaking of that, how long will the skytrain need to be out of service while they get rid of that little roller coaster bit?

Every post-viaduct rendering has depicted the Skytrain's dip under the viaducts as remaining. That means despite the removal of the viaducts (the only thing which necessitated the dip), the Skytrain tracks will continue to dip down to ground level, creating an impassable (and inexplicable) pedestrian barrier, complete with unsightly barbwire, in perpetuity for that particular section. If Translink was unwilling to cut back 10 feet of an unused concrete shell to avoid the whole absurdity of the "Hump To Nowhere" at Lougheed Station, then they are not going to spend tens of millions and disrupt an active line for months to fix the "Dip To Nowhere."

[WarrenC12]

Some people in this thread need some inspirational help:

[Vin]

Nobody from the pro-viaduct-takedown side seems to want to answer all the questions posed regarding the skytrain being the barrier. Sorry folks, the skytrain won't magically disappear once the viaducts are taken down. So your argument that the viaducts act as barriers between Chinatown and Falsecreek northeast just doesn't hold water. The widened Pacific Boulevard will essentially replace the land freed up by the viaducts, which would make us go back to square one, but after spending millions removing the viaducts to satisfy the egos of this City council.

Even at the viaduct lands around and east of Main Street, these are now acting as barriers because they are currently undermaintained parkland which the City purposely neglects. Had they been repurposed, spruced up or redeveloped, they would've linked the Terminal area to Chinatown seamlessly and beautifully.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Some people in this thread need some inspirational help:

This jumping whale still doesn't make the skytrain guideway go away.....

[Vin]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Switch to Skytrain, the views are even better.

I've done it many times, but mostly need to peer over the shoulders or armpits of fellow passengers. I still prefer the unobstructed views from the viaducts.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Nobody from the pro-viaduct-takedown side seems to want to answer all the questions posed regarding the skytrain being the barrier. Sorry folks, the skytrain won't magically disappear once the viaducts are taken down. So your argument that the viaducts act as barriers between Chinatown and Falsecreek northeast just doesn't hold water.

I'm not pro-viaduct takedown, I'm just accepting that it's happening and looking forward to the change that has been long-awaited in the area.

Originally Posted by Vin

Even at the area around and east of Main Street, these are now a barrier because they are currently undermaintained parkland which the City purposely neglects. Had it been repurposed, spruced up or redeveloped, it would've linked the Terminal area to Chinatown seamlessly and beautifully.

What are you talking about? The greenspace that the viaducts now cut through? There's not much use in a park there now, but there will be when they are gone.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Vin

Nobody from the pro-viaduct-takedown side seems to want to answer all the questions posed regarding the skytrain being the barrier. Sorry folks, the skytrain won't magically disappear once the viaducts are taken down. So your argument that the viaducts act as barriers between Chinatown and Falsecreek northeast just doesn't hold water.

There are elevated skytrain lines all over the region and I don't hear anyone complaining that they're a barrier. In fact the viaducts aren't really a barrier either, they're just unsightly and oppresive. Skytrain guideways are far less imposing than the viaducts.