PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[acenturi]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

Bloomingdale's opening city outlet store in November

Exciting - NOT. Now if that was an announcement for a full scale CC Bloomingdale's, I'd stuff the kids into my Wraith and pop on over there (when they open) for 6 or 7 pairs of Salvatore Ferragamo loafers .

[1487]

Originally Posted by acenturi

Exciting - NOT. Now if that was an announcement for a full scale CC Bloomingdale's, I'd stuff the kids into my Wraith and pop on over there (when they open) for 6 or 7 pairs of Salvatore Ferragamo loafers .

exactly. Only retail worth anncouning are 5th avenue caliber stores. Anything with the word "outlet" in the name is now below our standards.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by acenturi

Exciting - NOT. Now if that was an announcement for a full scale CC Bloomingdale's, I'd stuff the kids into my Wraith and pop on over there (when they open) for 6 or 7 pairs of Salvatore Ferragamo loafers .

Originally Posted by 1487

exactly. Only retail worth anncouning are 5th avenue caliber stores. Anything with the word "outlet" in the name is now below our standards.

Haven't you guys figured it out? Center City just isn't up to the standards of either 5th Avenue (or Lexington in the case of Bloomies' flagship) or Willow Grove Mall :

It will be the first Bloomingdale's outlet store in the Philadelphia metropolitan area and the 16th in the country. It joins Bloomingdale's department stores at King of Prussia Mall and Willow Grove Mall.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...ore_in_November.html#xDILsdZvY7Khkxem.99

[zakuc258]

Center city Philadelphia doesn't have the consumer needed for full scale Bloomingdale's or other higher end stores. The outlet stores that keep popping up will be better suited for the large Millennial population that continues to grow in Philly. I don't think you would see success from high end fashion stores, there are just no consumers for this market. If you want high end you can easily travel to the King of Prussia mall. If Millennials stay in the city there is hope that later we may see a demand for a full blown high end retail stores.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by summersm343

3675 Science Center
37th and Market







http://www.intechconstruction.com/current.php?mode=0&id=1#

Is it a rule that every building in the Sci Center has to be a boring box? The retail component however is a big plus. I really like how it meets the street. Is the white-ish glass box (naturally!) behind the new tower a phase 2? It's not there now, right? I'm referring to the squat glass box that's only visible in the first rendering - not the tall reddish one that's currently u/c.

Dow Chemical is moving 350 jobs out of the city. It's like we get good news of small startups moving to the city and then it's two steps back with news like this. 350 jobs is a lot. How many more decades of job loss will this face before something gets done? I don't see Kenney doing anything. If Nutter couldn't fix things, I don't see anyone else that will.

[Kidphilly]

Job density map for reference

http://www.robertmanduca.com/projects/jobs.html

[Philadelcago]

Originally Posted by McBane

Is the white-ish glass box (naturally!) behind the new tower a phase 2? It's not there now, right? I'm referring to the squat glass box that's only visible in the first rendering - not the tall reddish one that's currently u/c.

It exists already, my doctor is in that building (3701) -- don't know for sure when it was built but it's been around for at least 5 years or so when I started working down the street:

https://goo.gl/maps/sBCMs

[McBane]

No, 3701 is to the right (west) of the new building. I'm talking about the tower behind it (on 37th not Market).

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by zakuc258

Center city Philadelphia doesn't have the consumer needed for full scale Bloomingdale's or other higher end stores. The outlet stores that keep popping up will be better suited for the large Millennial population that continues to grow in Philly. I don't think you would see success from high end fashion stores, there are just no consumers for this market. If you want high end you can easily travel to the King of Prussia mall. If Millennials stay in the city there is hope that later we may see a demand for a full blown high end retail stores.

I seriously doubt that it's Millennials buying most of the many million-dollar-plus--or even half-million-dollar-plus--condos and townhouses, or renting the high-rent apartments, that have been and are being developed in and around Center City, targeted at empty-nesters and wealthier folks more than Millennials. Not to mention the higher-end hotels that have been and are being developed, growing convention and tourism numbers, etc. If Center City can support a full-blown Macy's, there's no reason to think it can't also support a full-blown Bloomies. As I pointed out above, there's one in Willow Grove Mall, which isn't exactly the nexus of high-end shopping in the suburbs.

[UPenn18]

Originally Posted by acenturi

Exciting - NOT. Now if that was an announcement for a full scale CC Bloomingdale's, I'd stuff the kids into my Wraith and pop on over there (when they open) for 6 or 7 pairs of Salvatore Ferragamo loafers .

There's a guy, RightonWalnut, on the Philadelphia 2035 thread on citydata that said today... "Bloomingdale's will be opening a full fledged department store in Philadelphia as well. Don't you worry about that. You heard it here first."

He's usually a credible guy, definitely not a troll so... interesting to say the least.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

I seriously doubt that it's Millennials buying most of the many million-dollar-plus, or even half-million-dollar-plus, condos and townhouses that have been and are being developed in and around Center City, targeted at empty-nesters and wealthier folks more than Millennials. Not to mention the higher-end hotels that have been and are being developed, growing convention and tourism numbers, etc. If Center City can support a full-blown Macy's, there's no reason to think it can't also support a full-blown Bloomies. As I pointed out above, there's one in Willow Grove Mall, which isn't exactly the nexus of high-end shopping in the suburbs.

a whole lot of well off families live within 20-30 min of Willow Grove mall and its offerings are a cut above the average generic Philly area mall. The people who make these decisions study demographics, tastes, etc. and they know what these new philadelphians are buying or not buying. I don't see the Philly millenial crowd as being big time brand snobs. I dont see them flocking to Bloomingdales or Saks or Nordstroms. The ages and preferences of middle to upper income people in a suburban area like willow grove arent going to be the same as city dwellers with similar incomes.

[1487]

Originally Posted by McBane

Is it a rule that every building in the Sci Center has to be a boring box? The retail component however is a big plus. I really like how it meets the street. Is the white-ish glass box (naturally!) behind the new tower a phase 2? It's not there now, right? I'm referring to the squat glass box that's only visible in the first rendering - not the tall reddish one that's currently u/c.

Dow Chemical is moving 350 jobs out of the city. It's like we get good news of small startups moving to the city and then it's two steps back with news like this. 350 jobs is a lot. How many more decades of job loss will this face before something gets done? I don't see Kenney doing anything. If Nutter couldn't fix things, I don't see anyone else that will.

First of all comcast is adding thousands of jobs in its new building. This in addition to all the smaller companies that are moving here or expanding with Philly offices. Secondly, NOTHING in the article about Dow suggests that taxes have anything to do with the move. They are doing it to cut costs and use underutilized space in the suburbs that they are paying for. There is no way to totally eliminate job losses or relocations that are based on corporate consolidation. Things will never be "fixed" to the point that no companies ever leave the city again- not going to happen.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by UPenn18

There's a guy, RightonWalnut, on the Philadelphia 2035 thread on citydata that said today... "Bloomingdale's will be opening a full fledged department store in Philadelphia as well. Don't you worry about that. You heard it here first."

He's usually a credible guy, definitely not a troll so... interesting to say the least.

Yea, they've already said they're looking for a location in Center City for a full-fledged store.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by zakuc258

Center city Philadelphia doesn't have the consumer needed for full scale Bloomingdale's or other higher end stores. The outlet stores that keep popping up will be better suited for the large Millennial population that continues to grow in Philly. I don't think you would see success from high end fashion stores, there are just no consumers for this market. If you want high end you can easily travel to the King of Prussia mall. If Millennials stay in the city there is hope that later we may see a demand for a full blown high end retail stores.

That's the long-term view spirit! There is often a tendency (amongst us all) to make the perfect the enemy of the good. A Bloomie's outlet beats a nondescript men's store and is a net plus. If they never open a full service Bloomingdales department store in the city, I wouldn't be surprised, but if one might actually open in addition to this, it would be testament to the breadth and depth of the consumer base in Center City. On the other hand, the Gallery Outlets vs. Walnut Street issue raised by some, is a more legitimate concern. Unless the consumer base in the city is more diverse than we think, there are some brands that are not so beyond reach of the masses that we want to see them opening outlets instead of their standard retail shops.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by 1487

First of all comcast is adding thousands of jobs in its new building. This in addition to all the smaller companies that are moving here or expanding with Philly offices. Secondly, NOTHING in the article about Dow suggests that taxes have anything to do with the move. They are doing it to cut costs and use underutilized space in the suburbs that they are paying for. There is no way to totally eliminate job losses or relocations that are based on corporate consolidation. Things will never be "fixed" to the point that no companies ever leave the city again- not going to happen.

This. They have a 50 year lease on the suburban building, so it makes sense to move this relatively small amount of employees to that underutilized location.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

That's the long-term view spirit! There is often a tendency (amongst us all) to make the perfect the enemy of the good. A Bloomie's outlet beats a nondescript men's store and is a net plus. As has been pointed out, it's not like Bloomingdale's was going to open a department store in Center City. On the other hand, the Gallery Outlets vs. Walnut Street issue raised by some, is a more legitimate concern. There are some brands that are not so beyond reach of the masses that we want to see them opening outlets instead of their standard retail shops.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by 1487

First of all comcast is adding thousands of jobs in its new building. This in addition to all the smaller companies that are moving here or expanding with Philly offices. Secondly, NOTHING in the article about Dow suggests that taxes have anything to do with the move. They are doing it to cut costs and use underutilized space in the suburbs that they are paying for. There is no way to totally eliminate job losses or relocations that are based on corporate consolidation. Things will never be "fixed" to the point that no companies ever leave the city again- not going to happen.

The 6th and Market job ship sailed when Dow bought Rohm & Haas. As much as I think Philly is terribly business unfriendly, this strikes me more as a minor aftershock resulting from the acquisition.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by br323206

That's the photoshop spirit! (Just kidding!!). Hey, my wife calls me "Philly-centric," so I'm not the most objective civic booster. However, sometimes even I sell my hometown short. (BTW, you beat me to my edit, which I made after I saw the rumors from "credible sources.")

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by 1487

a whole lot of well off families live within 20-30 min of Willow Grove mall and its offerings are a cut above the average generic Philly area mall. The people who make these decisions study demographics, tastes, etc. and they know what these new philadelphians are buying or not buying. I don't see the Philly millenial crowd as being big time brand snobs. I dont see them flocking to Bloomingdales or Saks or Nordstroms. The ages and preferences of middle to upper income people in a suburban area like willow grove arent going to be the same as city dwellers with similar incomes.

Don't underestimate the number and percentage of city dwellers with similar incomes who are empty-nesters and/or migrated from the suburbs, and share similar tastes in shopping with their suburban counterparts. Not to mention the changing and increasingly more positive attitudes of ALL area residents--including those in the suburbs--towards Center City. And my point is that I wouldn't count out a full-blown Center City Bloomie's too soon, especially since--as pointed out above--they're apparently looking for space for such a store:

Bloomingdale’s Is Officially Looking for Space in Center City

And I'm in one of those "well off familes" that live relatively near and frequently shop at Willow Grove Mall. It is NOT a cut above average suburban Philly malls such as Montgomery, Plymouth Meeting, Springfield, Cherry Hill, Moorestown, etc. Among the larger suburban malls, I'd only classify KOP as "a cut above."

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by UPenn18

There's a guy, RightonWalnut, on the Philadelphia 2035 thread on citydata that said today... "Bloomingdale's will be opening a full fledged department store in Philadelphia as well. Don't you worry about that. You heard it here first."

He's usually a credible guy, definitely not a troll so... interesting to say the least.

maybe he will start posting on this forum this summers