..............
Thank you again, Cage, for this possible explanatory scenario.
My next question might be: what effect will Emirates presence have on SEA-TAC?
I wonder if this may drag down other international routes out of there, as well. It'll be interesting to watch how it all unfolds.
SEA with daily EK has all ready experienced a few airlines pull out. AF left while DL started this points to there not being enough profit or pax for AF to continue the route. SAS used to have a nonstop to SEA, but that's gone.
It would be interesting if the next to go is LH and/or BA. Both airlines need to feed their global hubs to make a go of the route. Additionally the problem for BA is DL competing service to LHR. If DL's desire to make SEA into a small international hub comes true, then BA might leave as they get no feed at SEA, have a non alliance competitor (DL) with equivalent product and have ME3 carrier siphoning off longhaul connections.
The next thing SEA might see is Asian airlines choosing not to service the city because EK is siphoning off longhaul connection traffic to India.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanSpice
Don't even think of trying to catch a flight on Boxing Day.
Or even the few days before Christmas, when you will have the perfect storm of high travel season and last minute Christmas shoppers.
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SEA with daily EK has all ready experienced a few airlines pull out. AF left while DL started this points to there not being enough profit or pax for AF to continue the route. SAS used to have a nonstop to SEA, but that's gone.
It would be interesting if the next to go is LH and/or BA. Both airlines need to feed their global hubs to make a go of the route. Additionally the problem for BA is DL competing service to LHR. If DL's desire to make SEA into a small international hub comes true, then BA might leave as they get no feed at SEA, have a non alliance competitor (DL) with equivalent product and have ME3 carrier siphoning off longhaul connections.
The next thing SEA might see is Asian airlines choosing not to service the city because EK is siphoning off longhaul connection traffic to India.
Hm. Not be be unkind or opportunistic, but this might give YVR certain advantages in the global scheme of things - speaking competitively, of course.
If the possible scenario follows through as you say it might, and LH/BA pull out, this would leave SEA-TAC mostly up to Delta to remain viable.
At any rate, some large US carrier would need to make a hub out of SEA if the foreign carriers pull out.
YVR would remain what Craig Richmond referred to as an "open sourced hub," with a goodly number of foreign carriers. A stark contrast to the Seattle future/possible scenario.
Last edited by trofirhen; Jul 13, 2015 at 6:38 PM.
This outlet mall has me thinking... Is this YVR trying to turn the airport into a more desirable stopover location? Obviously, their bread and butter will be locals, but I wonder how much in-transit traffic they're expecting.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the train is free between Templeton and YVR, right?
This outlet mall has me thinking... Is this YVR trying to turn the airport into a more desirable stopover location? Obviously, their bread and butter will be locals, but I wonder how much in-transit traffic they're expecting.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the train is free between Templeton and YVR, right?
It is free, but I think it's important to remember that the outlets aren't necessarily built for passengers in-transit. If these were the exclusive audience they were targeting, it would make sense to locate the outlet closer to the airport by the current long-term lots.
The point of the development is to use surplus airport lands to make revenue. The location targets locals and travellers, but also passengers with long-transits should they wish to exit the secured area.
Was at YVR last week and noticed another 747-8, this one however was of the freight variety belonging to Cathay Cargo. Looks like it will be a more permanent fixture though as when I left later in the week another was there.
So there will be 747-8s flying into Vancouver after all!
Bonus youtube vid of one landing a couple of weeks ago:
The point of the development is to use surplus airport lands to make revenue. The location targets locals and travellers, but also passengers with long-transits should they wish to exit the secured area.
Further to your point, in Calgary the airport authority is one of the cities largest land developers and they are making a lot of money doing this ancillary business. YVRAA just wants a piece of the pie.
Edmonton airports is launching a similar retail land development initiatives, but on a much larger scale than YVR. YVR will have very high return on investment compared to YEG because there is very little retail complex competition given the population base. The big money would be YVR market with the YEG land bank.
Hm. Not be be unkind or opportunistic, but this might give YVR certain advantages in the global scheme of things - speaking competitively, of course.
If the possible scenario follows through as you say it might, and LH/BA pull out, this would leave SEA-TAC mostly up to Delta to remain viable.
At any rate, some large US carrier would need to make a hub out of SEA if the foreign carriers pull out.
YVR would remain what Craig Richmond referred to as an "open sourced hub," with a goodly number of foreign carriers. A stark contrast to the Seattle future/possible scenario.
I am not certain Europe from Seattle is all that important to Delta. you could call it a Hub, but I think Delta's goal is more to turn it into a gateway city to Asia. If Paris, Amsterdam and London don't make money I could see Delta drop one or more of them.
Back in the 80's I BA use to do Heathrow-Vancouver-Seattle-Heathrow. They needed both cities to fill a 747. The could go back to that if they still want to server Seattle but can't fill sufficient seats.
Was at YVR last week and noticed another 747-8, this one however was of the freight variety belonging to Cathay Cargo. Looks like it will be a more permanent fixture though as when I left later in the week another was there.
So there will be 747-8s flying into Vancouver after all!
CX have been flying in 748 freighters for a couple of years now and more recently KE as well.
As for the outlet mall, the land closer to the long term parking is earmarked for future airport related development. I bet Templeton is about as close as they could get.
When I visit BC and AB in August, visiting this outlet mall won't be high on my list of things to do.
I am not certain Europe from Seattle is all that important to Delta. you could call it a Hub, but I think Delta's goal is more to turn it into a gateway city to Asia. If Paris, Amsterdam and London don't make money I could see Delta drop one or more of them.
Back in the 80's I BA use to do Heathrow-Vancouver-Seattle-Heathrow. They needed both cities to fill a 747. The could go back to that if they still want to server Seattle but can't fill sufficient seats.
For Delta to drop eventual European routes, is fine, if that's what they want. Seattle pasengers might come to Vancouver to fly out on on of our 4 European airlines.
Though I think they'll keep Icelandair, as it sort of replaces SAS, with Seattle's large Scandinavian market.
If Delta wants to make Seattle an Asia hub, it would seem to me that they might have a fair bit of catching up if they want to make an Asia footprint as big, or bigger, than YVR.
Or am I wrong?
Further to your point, in Calgary the airport authority is one of the cities largest land developers and they are making a lot of money doing this ancillary business. YVRAA just wants a piece of the pie.
Edmonton airports is launching a similar retail land development initiatives, but on a much larger scale than YVR. YVR will have very high return on investment compared to YEG because there is very little retail complex competition given the population base. The big money would be YVR market with the YEG land bank.
Would YVR, but with a large land bank, as at YEG, include expanding it into a regional mall? The "Airport Mall," for example. (?)
Further to your point, in Calgary the airport authority is one of the cities largest land developers and they are making a lot of money doing this ancillary business. YVRAA just wants a piece of the pie.
Edmonton airports is launching a similar retail land development initiatives, but on a much larger scale than YVR. YVR will have very high return on investment compared to YEG because there is very little retail complex competition given the population base. The big money would be YVR market with the YEG land bank.
Bare in mind though retail expenditures in Alberta, notably more in Calgary than Edmonton however, are relatively high for a smaller population, which is due to the high average income levels of Albertans. Results in 2014 will probably be different due to the economic slowdown (not that we can get any good accurate data anymore with the removal of mandatory census...).
As you mentioned, other airports in Canada have also engaged in this but in other forms of real estate. I'm not in any position to disclose further information of which ones and what forms, but these types of land uses have also been discussed in this thread.
Bare in mind though retail expenditures in Alberta, notably more in Calgary than Edmonton however, are relatively high for a smaller population, which is due to the high average income levels of Albertans. Results in 2014 will probably be different due to the economic slowdown (not that we can get any good accurate data anymore with the removal of mandatory census...).
As you mentioned, other airports in Canada have also engaged in this but in other forms of real estate. I'm not in any position to disclose further information of which ones and what forms, but these types of land uses have also been discussed in this thread.
It's actually quite common internationally as well. Many examples of airports engaging in non-aviation development to maximize revenues and turn the airport into a 'destination.' Hong Kong and Singapore are good examples, where the airport isn't just a place to catch your flight, but see a movie (the IMAX in HK airport is great, BTW), play golf, attend a convention/exhibition or shop. Seoul Incheon is developing a huge entertainment complex and casino aimed primarily at visiting mainland Chinese tourists.
I had some time today, so I rode my bike to the new outlet and back. My apologies for the picture quality, as I only had my phone with me.
Here's the Phase 2 area from Arthur Lainge Bridge.
Signs to the outlet are good.
From Templeton Station.
Main entrance
Map of the area.
The famous Coach line. Still busy.
Don't ask me why, byt there is a first nations section just outside of the outlet.
Kids play area.
I saw some people with luggage with them, so maybe the strategy to lure transit passangers is working?
Art piece
Fountain square
Overall it is your typical outlet. It looks nice for an outlet, but I was surprised how almost half of the stores are not yet open. There are dozens of store fronts that sau "coming soon" and "opening soon". There is really very little to visit yet.
I would also like to see some more food options at location. There is only Cafe Artigiano, Japadog stand and a Japanese and Chinese restaurants opening soon. Can't remember if there was also an Italian restaurant going to open.
Overall the place was very busy for a Wednesday with parking lot at least half full. 80% of visitors were Asian people.
Wow, this is certainly bringing upscale suburban USA to Richmond. I've been to countless number of these places in my US travels, this is no different.
Also, Klazu takes better phone pictures than I can with my wife's DSLR.
For Delta to drop eventual European routes, is fine, if that's what they want. Seattle pasengers might come to Vancouver to fly out on on of our 4 European airlines.
Though I think they'll keep Icelandair, as it sort of replaces SAS, with Seattle's large Scandinavian market.
If Delta wants to make Seattle an Asia hub, it would seem to me that they might have a fair bit of catching up if they want to make an Asia footprint as big, or bigger, than YVR.
Or am I wrong?
I think what Delta wants is to make money. If they can fill the aircraft from Seattle at a profit more than they can make deploying the aircraft somewhere else
I don't think they are trying to compete with Vancouver. They are more focused on meeting the US market needs. They are also reducing the Narita hub.
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