PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Is a bowling alley really a sustainable concept? Bowling seems like an activity that's been in long-term decline.

Mostly, but it has a certain hipster cred that might actually work great Downtown (see, e.g., Arsenal Lanes in hipster-haven Lawrenceville):

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/05/nyregion/05bowling.html?_r=0

These are not the beer-belly bowling alleys of yesteryear, but souped-up, hipster alleys often interwoven with restaurants, V.I.P. lounges, clubs, sports bars. Dark lighting. D.J.’s and thundering music. Videos dancing over flat-screen televisions above the pins. Waiter service. Dress codes. Coolness. The bowling is often a way to kill time between drink orders. The alleys rely heavily on corporate and private parties. Some customers never bother to bowl.

Meanwhile, conventional alleys continue to close. . . . Throughout the country, there has been a continuing and pronounced decline in organized league bowling, though a rise in the number of people who bowl occasionally (which can mean once a year).

. . . Bowlmor and the upscale alleys typically shun leagues. They don’t want guys who show up with bowling outfits and excessive stomachs and their own equipment and want to pay $1.95 a game. “They want the cheapest, most miserable experience,” Mr. Shannon said. “I would describe it as a Stalinist experience.” At Bowlmor, games are generally $11 to $13.

Kinda classist, but I suspect that is the vision.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

Bowling seems like a weird choice compared to things that might be more desirable for a commercial area and with less upkeep... like racquetball courts or a gym/fitness center.

Racquetball courts is exactly what I was thinking. It's so hard to find gyms in the urban core that have courts.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Big cities have them...

http://www.bowlluckystrike.com/locations/


I think this is more the type of "bowling alley concept" that would be fitting in downtown Pittsburgh, certainly not the bowling and beer yinzer league lanes.

I've been to the locations in DC and Miami... fun, good crowd, hot waitresses that bring you drinks and pretty good food while you get drunk and bowl.

Ever been to the defunct location at Pittsburgh Mills?

http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/business/s_467854.html#axzz3fuIbQ9oW

Admittedly, Lucky Strike said at that time they were abandoning suburban malls for downtown urban locations. I don't think there's enough 'hipster market' to support both Arsenal Lanes in Lawrenceville and a potential Lucky Strike Downtown.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Ever been to the defunct location at Pittsburgh Mills?

http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/business/s_467854.html#axzz3fuIbQ9oW

Admittedly, Lucky Strike said at that time they were abandoning suburban malls for downtown urban locations. I don't think there's enough 'hipster market' to support both Arsenal Lanes in Lawrenceville and a potential Lucky Strike Downtown.

Never went there... but I think something like Lucky Strike all the way up in Kittanning was doomed to failure. I never realized they put one there... very weird. Strange that the company ever considered locating there (a place that checks zero of the demographic boxes they look for I imagine) in the first place.

I don't find Lucky Strike to be 'hipster' at all though... more like yuppie and birthday partyish and touristy in a way. It's not my favorite place or anything, far from my scene, but I think something like it could be successful in downtown Pittsburgh, if it is part of a larger development with additional dining/entertainment options.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Racquetball courts is exactly what I was thinking. It's so hard to find gyms in the urban core that have courts.

Did I fall into a 1986 time warp hole or something?

[photoLith]

Holy mother of god is that building bad. The fire department is out front of it right now, I hope it burns down. Tin siding should be outlawed. And to think rich people will be living across the street having to stare at that piece of god awful shit everyday.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I don't think there's enough 'hipster market' to support both Arsenal Lanes in Lawrenceville and a potential Lucky Strike Downtown.

That I have no clue about. Usually in industries like this, they have guidelines for what sort of market conditions are favorable for additional locations, but I don't personally know what those would be in this industry.

I would note, however, the article I linked claimed these sorts of bowling alleys "rely heavily on corporate and private parties." Pure anecdote, but when I was leaving a job one time (on good terms), they arranged my going-away party at one of these places in DC.

So just superficially, Downtown sounds like a plausible location to me. I'm not sure it would work if Downtown was ONLY corporate, but with all the new residential units coming along (including in this very complex), it seems to me it might have a quite desirable mix.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Did I fall into a 1986 time warp hole or something?

Just out of frame is a HUGE pile of cocaine.

[AaronPGH]

Hi we already have the original, authentic badass bowling alley – Arsenal Lanes.

[BrianTH]

Write up on the the Buncher plan, with a note on the Oxford plan, as presented to the Planning Commission:

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/8736114-74/development-apartments-nrp#axzz3fs1r9ldI

We knew about the basics of the plans already, of course, but there is some interesting discussion on things like how they perceive demand, and some details on planned amenities.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

Hi we already have the original, authentic badass bowling alley – Arsenal Lanes.

Not nearly as cool as the Allegheny Elk's Club Lanes.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by photoLith

Holy mother of god is that building bad. The fire department is out front of it right now, I hope it burns down. Tin siding should be outlawed. And to think rich people will be living across the street having to stare at that piece of god awful shit everyday.

Yeah... certainly not my favorite, but corrugated metal kinda fits in with the industrial character of the Strip... so I'm surprisingly ok with it. Though as I said before, it doesn't seem to be appropriate for the world's largest company -- though I guess it's not Apple's building, rather just renting space.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Just out of frame is a HUGE pile of cocaine.

Oh yeah... on the bench right next to a set of keys to a Porsche 944.

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

Hi we already have the original, authentic badass bowling alley – Arsenal Lanes.

This attitude is indicative of Pittsburgh though... and I find it to be endlessly frustrating. The "we already have this, so why do we need that" attitude. The fact that we have Arsenal Lanes should have absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.

Like BrianTH said, a venue like a Lucky Strike lanes could be a very good fit in a downtown Pittsburgh location, with corporate presence and expanding residential. And considering the number of new hotel rooms now (and planned), there's really not a whole hell of a lot to do downtown after working hours besides go to a bar/restaurant (most people visiting on business are not going to take in a show in the Cultural District). If I was in town for work with some colleagues and staying in a hotel downtown, I'd definitely do some bowling at a place that was not your typical depressing bowling alley, but one with music, food, drink, and a good crowd.

I've been to the one in uptown Cleveland that akPITT207 mentioned. My wife and I went there after going to the art museum. I thought it was a great addition to the University circle area there... and it left us both wondering, "Why doesn't Pittsburgh have stuff like this?"

New downtown Cleve location

http://downtown.corneralley.com/

"Other major improvements include a new bar with open-air access on East Fourth Street and a transformed open-air space facing Euclid Avenue."

Replace East Fourth Street with Fifth Ave and Euclid with Smithfield... and tell me that wouldn't work in Pittsburgh.

[themaguffin]

The newer bowling alleys that many cities have are not the old school ones that "yinzers" or "hipsters" would go to.

They are destinations for people who largely don't bowl regularly and want to have a fun outing or that a company might have an event etc.

Some have other things to do as well.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Oh yeah... on the bench right next to a set of keys to a Porsche 944.

And the other dude has a 924, which the first dude constantly makes fun of. They then put on pastel t-shirts and white suits, and cruise over to Monsters of Rock to offer rides to metal chicks in acid-wash jeans.

Like BrianTH said, a venue like a Lucky Strike lanes could be a very good fit in a downtown Pittsburgh location, with corporate presence and expanding residential. And considering the number of new hotel rooms now (and planned), there's really not a whole hell of a lot to do downtown after working hours besides go to a bar/restaurant (most people visiting on business are not going to take in a show in the Cultural District). If I was in town for work with some colleagues and staying in a hotel downtown, I'd definitely do some bowling at a place that was not your typical depressing bowling alley, but one with music, food, drink, and a good crowd.

I have to admit, the fact that this is controversial is a bit odd to me. To me it is in the same category as, say, bus tracking technology or Brazilian steakhouses--the headline being "Pittsburgh gets thing that proved successful in other cities like 10 years ago."

Not a big deal, of course, but I think this cycle is going to repeat many times going forward.

[BrianTH]

This article suggests strong initial leasing for Oxford's Southside Works project helps explain their interest in moving forward with their Centre project:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ne...de-works-apartment-project-going-up.html

There seems to be a lot of discussion lately in articles like this about whether all this building is sustainable, but as long as actual leasing remains strong, it is a good bet companies will keep putting new projects in the pipeline.

[Wiz Khalifa]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

This article suggests strong initial leasing for Oxford's Southside Works project helps explain their interest in moving forward with their Centre project:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ne...de-works-apartment-project-going-up.html

Which brings in to question why they felt it was necessary to decrease the size of the project in the first place.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

There seems to be a lot of discussion lately in articles like this about whether all this building is sustainable, but as long as actual leasing remains strong, it is a good bet companies will keep putting new projects in the pipeline.

This seems to be a common reaction to a noticeable increase in residential construction in any city, but it becomes particularly evident when a city (like Pittsburgh) has had so few projects in recent memory. A Pittsburgher is likely to look at all of it and say, "Where are all the people to fill these apartments?"... without understanding that Pittsburgh has had a severe lack of apartments in the city for a long, long time now; especially a lack of decent apartments that would appeal to those beyond college age.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Wiz Khalifa

Which brings in to question why they felt it was necessary to decrease the size of the project in the first place.

Indeed, even as they were investing more in similar projects elsewhere.

I don't get it either, but maybe they were concerned the South Side Works is not quite as great a location, at least relatively speaking, as they originally thought.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

And the other dude has a 924, which the first dude constantly makes fun of. They then put on pastel t-shirts and white suits, and cruise over to Monsters of Rock to offer rides to metal chicks in acid-wash jeans.

[BrianTH]

The Guardian wrote an article on East Liberty:

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jul/08/rundown-pittsburgh-neighbourhood-crime-social-housing

That's cool.

Meanwhile, it feels to me like when NYC media travel editors run out of ideas, they just send someone to Pittsburgh again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/19/travel...rs-in-pittsburgh.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0