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  #181  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2015, 3:28 PM
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phil235 phil235 is offline
 
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Was just on Sparks Street. It's looking pretty good with the big new patios for Nate's and the Biermarket. This new direction for the street shows some promise.
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  #182  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2015, 5:29 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
 
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Very good point. Queen Street is intended to be a premiere pedestrian street once the LRT is built, so there may be more of a critical mass of pedestrian destinations there.

LRT may also be key in attracting a destination retailer or entertainment option. There are plenty of people living downtown to keep local retail busy, as evidenced by Bank St., but in order to have a vibrant destination, you need to draw from outside that area.
Queen is never going to be much of a "premiere pedestrian street" as long as it is lined with —-faced buildings.
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  #183  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2015, 6:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Queen is never going to be much of a "premiere pedestrian street" as long as it is lined with —-faced buildings.
Presumably it will get lots of pedestrians by virtue of the LRT stations alone, which may encourage landlords to improve their street presence. The SunLife Centre is already making changes.
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  #184  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2015, 1:07 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
 
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Presumably it will get lots of pedestrians by virtue of the LRT stations alone, which may encourage landlords to improve their street presence. The SunLife Centre is already making changes.
Changing one's street presence != improving it.

The Delta and Place Bell both changed their street presence, and for the better, aesthetically - but the function hasn't changed one jot.
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  #185  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2015, 2:11 PM
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phil235 phil235 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Changing one's street presence != improving it.

The Delta and Place Bell both changed their street presence, and for the better, aesthetically - but the function hasn't changed one jot.
Fair enough. I would expect that wider sidewalks and streetscaping will at least provide some encouragement to property owners.
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  #186  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2015, 2:37 AM
canabiz canabiz is offline
 
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I had Camp 31 half-chicken, half-rib combo tonight and it was good. No place for us to sit outside or on the patio so we ended up at the — & Lion to polish things off...

Great nite out...I may come back for an encore tomorrow as it's supposed to rain on Sunday.

Sparks St. was full of people tonight. Great to see. One of the few times a year I venture from Barrhaven to downtown
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  #187  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2015, 10:25 PM
canabiz canabiz is offline
 
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I was on Sparks Street today around 3:30 p.m. and saw a restaurant worker putting the patio furniture away...on a beautiful day in the middle of July and with tourists milling around on Elgin across D'Arcy and public servants in nearby offices about to end another working day...it's just sad man, it really is...

I recently spent some time in Barcelona and London, U.K. and I know we are comparing apples to oranges in terms of population, culture and attractions but if they can get Las Ramblas (Barcelona) and Covent Garden (London), to name a couple of the more well-know pedestrian streets) humming at ANY time of the day, ANY day of the week, what is stopping Sparks Street from getting to that level?



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  #188  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2015, 10:27 PM
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  #189  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2015, 11:13 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
 
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I was on Sparks Street today around 3:30 p.m. and saw a restaurant worker putting the patio furniture away...
Which restaurant?
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  #190  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2015, 11:23 PM
canabiz canabiz is offline
 
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Which restaurant?
I don't remember the name but it's across from the RBC building, between Metcalfe and Elgin.

Unless I am missing something, I thought it was pretty odd to clear the patio in the middle of a beautiful day.
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  #191  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by canabiz View Post
I don't remember the name but it's across from the RBC building, between Metcalfe and Elgin.

Unless I am missing something, I thought it was pretty odd to clear the patio in the middle of a beautiful day.
Yes, odd, as there has been a huge increase in patio activity on Sparks over the past year.
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  #192  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 1:43 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
 
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I think it really is a shame but I think there are 2 main factors that differenciate these areas metnioned above to Spark St.

1) The retail options; you can easily stroll down Las Ramblas to visit the shops AND stop for coffee, drinks, meals but sadly Sparks St doesn't offer that... YES, it is somewhat getting better as the restaurant assortment grows but other then that there is nothing.. Basically unless you're eating, you don't go to Sparks St.

2) The Culture. Europeans love to mingle and socialize and spend HOURS outside or at cafes to drink, chat, meet up with friends etc.. Have you ever been to dinner with the French or Italians or something? A meal out is a night out in itself and you can easily spend 2-3 hours at a restaurant to eat, sample food, drinks and socialize. Unfortunately in Canada the culture is different and we are more of a "go-go-go" population. You drive down to Boston Pizza with your family of 4 and go in-and-out of there within an hour to rush to go to Costco after and catch the latest episode of Law & Order at home... Canadians, and probably even moreso Ottawans, are notorious for being "home-bodies", hence why very little downtown government workers or Orleans, Kanata, Barrhaven residents come/stay downtown to enjoy the patios and the "city life".
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  #193  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2015, 12:27 AM
canabiz canabiz is offline
 
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
I think it really is a shame but I think there are 2 main factors that differenciate these areas metnioned above to Spark St.

1) The retail options; you can easily stroll down Las Ramblas to visit the shops AND stop for coffee, drinks, meals but sadly Sparks St doesn't offer that... YES, it is somewhat getting better as the restaurant assortment grows but other then that there is nothing.. Basically unless you're eating, you don't go to Sparks St.

2) The Culture. Europeans love to mingle and socialize and spend HOURS outside or at cafes to drink, chat, meet up with friends etc.. Have you ever been to dinner with the French or Italians or something? A meal out is a night out in itself and you can easily spend 2-3 hours at a restaurant to eat, sample food, drinks and socialize. Unfortunately in Canada the culture is different and we are more of a "go-go-go" population. You drive down to Boston Pizza with your family of 4 and go in-and-out of there within an hour to rush to go to Costco after and catch the latest episode of Law & Order at home... Canadians, and probably even moreso Ottawans, are notorious for being "home-bodies", hence why very little downtown government workers or Orleans, Kanata, Barrhaven residents come/stay downtown to enjoy the patios and the "city life".
I think you hit the nail in the head with respect to the culture part, OTSkyline (The lack of food venues is also a good point).

I am guilty as charged. At the end of a typical workday, I look forward to firing up my grill and enjoy a cold one at my Barrhaven home, going downtown and chilling on Sparks Street is usually not in my routine (unless there is an event like Ribfest and/or prior appointments with families/friends.

It is cheaper and more relaxing for me to do so although I do miss the people watching aspect in the summer months (don't we all love the eye candy!). Sparks Street is what it is and same goes for Ottawa so I just have to resign to those facts and appreciate the greenery, spacious living spaces and lower cost of living (compared to Barcelona and London, U.K.) that we have here. The grass is not necessarily greener on the other side...
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  #194  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2015, 2:04 AM
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Aylmer Aylmer is offline
 
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I think that one important aspect of Sparks St.'s decline is that it doesn't really connect easily from anything on either end; To the west, it trickles off past Bank leading to a lonely albeit beautiful lookout. To the east, it's halted by the horrible series of — intersections between lifeless buildings (Old train station, NAC) and empty space (War Memorial and that weird piece of empty greenspace beside the NAC), culminating with a humiliating trip down an underpass to finally attain the active but unappealing Rideau street. There's a reason why the north, underpass-less sidewalk on Wellington is always so full and the south side is so empty - people would rather cross Rideau/Wellington twice than to have to go under that ungodly underpass, no matter how loud they blast the music or how many laminated reprints of art they stick up down there.



The entire reason that Sparks was so appealing in the first place is because it was the one street which connected Uppertown (downtown) and Lowertown across the canal*. It was the street you had to (and indeed wanted to) take for so many necessary, utilitarian trips and it worked as an almost seamless connection. In my opinion, the War Memorial was built in a very unfortunate place for exactly that reason - it turned a small gap in the urban fabric (the canal) into a wide, empty field of inactivity in the exact spot that had made it such an excellent crossing in the first place; crossing from one part of town to the next was no longer a natural flow - it required the 'determination' to cross past Elgin, something which it still does today.


(Notice how small a gap there is between Lowetown (Union Station) and Uppertown (the old post office) - perhaps all of 75m.

Of course, there's no moving the War Memorial nowadays - it is where it is. However, there's a LOT we can do to close the gap and make Sparks a natural link across the canal:
1. Built it out/Fill in the blanks
Between Elgin and Sussex, there needs to be a concerted effort to close the "missing teeth" along the south side of the street, most notably the empty facade of the NAC, the slope towards the canal beside the NAC and the space between the old train station and the Rideau Centre. They could fill them with low-mid rise buildings (4-5 storeys) with excellent street presence to invite people to venture further along.
We could attain something even better than what was there before the demolition of the Corry block in the 60's, that is to say a connection which, though not seamless, isn't completely severed as it is today.


2. Tame the road
the horrible intersections and roads between Elgin and Sussex need to go. No more double-left-turns, no more highway overpass, no more traffic speeding past tiny pedestrian islands like sharks around a dinghy. If we want people to walk along it, Rideau/Wellington/Elgin need to be slow streets with easy-to-understand intersections and pedestrian priority - slowing down cars from 60km/h to 30km/h for 100m will make little to no difference for motorists, but will mean the world to the people walking and sitting as well as the businesses which depend on them (which is to say all of them except the Chateau Laurier). By slowing people down, we can even hope to attain to actually increase vehicle throughput like they did in Poynton, UK.
3. Make it comfortable
It gets hella hot/cold in Ottawa and people are reluctant to have to walk across any significant distance of shade-less Serengeti in the summer and buffer-less arctic tundra in the winter. There needs to be some serious tree-planting to connect Sparks to Rideau, including on the Plaza bridge (which, as we've shown on the Somerset overpass, we CAN do).

The connection between Rideau and Sparks is, in my eyes, the element which made it so successful in the first place. The break in that connection is also what I believe has made Sparks so useless and unused even while other main streets like Bank do so well - there's just no really good reason to be on Sparks other than if it's your final destination; people who need to get somewhere have little use for it.

If we ever want to make Sparks anything more than an empty shell of itself, we are going to have to fix this.



*Wellington did too, but it failed as a commercial artery because of the huge presence of the Parliamentary precinct preventing development on both sides of the street

Last edited by Aylmer; Jul 15, 2015 at 2:30 AM.
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  #195  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2015, 3:01 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
 
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Excellent analysis Aylmer!!

I think the easiest thing we can do is to return a store front present at the NAC. For years, there was a large book store there.

We could also wish that Union Station was returned to a public function.

Those two things alone would make a big difference.

I also hate what they did with the intersection of MacKenzie-Sussex and Rideau. Looking at the various shots, they demolished at least 4 buildings to allow better traffic flow. But who cares about pedestrians? It created a somewhat creepy spot, which was worse when somewhat undesirables used congregate there. Pedestrians can't be placed down in holes like this. They should be at street and store level. This creates a sense of security. They should at the very least get rid of the hole and return pedestrians to street level even if it slows traffic down a tad.

Then there is the missed opportunity of having an LRT station in this gap between Rideau and Sparks. This alone would have enlivened the gap and allowed for better reuse of the NAC and the adjacent land.

We allowed this gap to develop over a 50 year period (1920s to 1970s) not realizing the invisible pedestrian barrier that we were creating step by step. Likewise, the Elgin Street boulevard developed in the late 30s did likewise. This is actually a contributing factor as it extends the pedestrian barrier southward as well. You just have to look at where the lively part of Elgin ends, right where the boulevard begins. And for a pedestrian, that is a distance before you get to Sparks or Rideau where there is something interesting again. We then added to all of this by having almost every building on Elgin having no or little street presence. Mistake upon mistake.

It is funny how something designed to provide a dramatic vista for the war memorial turned out to be so destructive to the urban fabric of the city.
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  #196  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2015, 3:10 AM
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1overcosc 1overcosc is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
2. Tame the road
the horrible intersections and roads between Elgin and Sussex need to go. No more double-left-turns, no more highway overpass, no more traffic speeding past tiny pedestrian islands like sharks around a dinghy. If we want people to walk along it, Rideau/Wellington/Elgin need to be slow streets with easy-to-understand intersections and pedestrian priority - slowing down cars from 60km/h to 30km/h for 100m will make little to no difference for motorists, but will mean the world to the people walking and sitting as well as the businesses which depend on them (which is to say all of them except the Chateau Laurier). By slowing people down, we can even hope to attain to actually increase vehicle throughput like they did in Poynton, UK.
This is a huge problem in many areas of our inner city; the roads & intersections are confusing, intimidating, and inconvenient for pedestrians, and street crossings are complicated.

The Sparks/Elgin mess, the whole Waller-Nicholas-Besserer area, the weird intersections around the escarpment (Slater/Albert/Bronson/Commissioner), are the worst offenders.

We need a serious simplification of the street network along with pedestrian-oriented intersections... no push buttons, changing frequently.
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  #197  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2015, 4:27 AM
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This is a huge problem in many areas of our inner city; the roads & intersections are confusing, intimidating, and inconvenient for pedestrians, and street crossings are complicated.

The Sparks/Elgin mess, the whole Waller-Nicholas-Besserer area, the weird intersections around the escarpment (Slater/Albert/Bronson/Commissioner), are the worst offenders.

We need a serious simplification of the street network along with pedestrian-oriented intersections... no push buttons, changing frequently.
The straight-ahead lane at Sussex and Rideau heading Eastbound is messed up, the light isn't aligned with the lane. It stills makes me feel uncomfortable after driving through it for 19 years.
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  #198  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2015, 4:39 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
 
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*Wellington did too, but it failed as a commercial artery because of the huge presence of the Parliamentary precinct preventing development on both sides of the street
I don't think it ever fancied itself a commercial artery. Government has always been its main function since Parliament came to town; the 19th and early 20th-century non-government uses on the street were, apart from a few pioneer-era survivors west of Bank, mostly ancillary to government. (Law offices, newspaper bureaus, etc.)
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  #199  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2015, 4:42 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
We need a serious simplification of the street network along with pedestrian-oriented intersections... no push buttons, changing frequently.
And yet, notwithstanding all the pretty and meaningless words in official plans about pedestrian priority, virtually every street rebuild in the core in the past 15 years has taken out pedestrian signals that operate automatically - when traffic gets a green, walkers get a walk - and replaced them with signals that do not give you a walk unless you specifically request one.

It's happened on Wellington, it's happened on Rideau, on Bank, and on, and on.
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  #200  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2015, 4:45 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
 
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We could also wish that Union Station was returned to a public function.
I think it'll generate more life at street level as the temporary Senate than it ever did as the GCC. It's time to start thinking, soon, about its post-Senate purpose.

Quote:
Then there is the missed opportunity of having an LRT station in this gap between Rideau and Sparks. This alone would have enlivened the gap and allowed for better reuse of the NAC and the adjacent land.
This failure was the chief reason that moved my mayoral vote last fall.
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