Olympic Village & Southeast False Creek Updates Discussion

[nds88]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the building you are referring to is the one the city is requiring Concert to build as another social housing ghetto and give away for free. So, since there is nothing in it for Concert, they are obviously in no hurry to build it.

The sales agents were quite dumb at the showroom. No one knows nothing regarding basic questions. They think it is a non-market rental building, and are pretty sure (but not fully confident) it won't be a social housing (ie homeless people fresh off the street).

[Jimbo604]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the building you are referring to is the one the city is requiring Concert to build as another social housing ghetto and give away for free. So, since there is nothing in it for Concert, they are obviously in no hurry to build it.

Ah yes, you are correct. The below text from the docs on this development also reveals how the city intends to protect itself from delayed building delivery..

"...[this development] includes a 9,748 s.m. (104,925 sq.ft.) social housing building (Building 1) as a major component of the public benefits derived from this and other rezonings within the Southeast False Creek precinct. Buildings 2 to 5 within the rezoning area, are to be entirely composed of market residential use.

This application follows the rezoning with a proposal for the first market residential building (Building 2). Furthermore, a separate Development Permit application for Building 1 has been recently submitted, and will be brought to the Development Permit Board at a later date. As a condition of the rezoning, the social housing component (Building 1) must be delivered to the City prior to the awarding of an Occupancy Permit for Buildings 3, 4 or 5."

Source: COV Development Permit Board website "1661 Quebec Street" details PDF page 6

[domusile]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

Ah yes, you are correct. The below text from the docs on this development also reveals how the city intends to protect itself from delayed building delivery..

"...[this development] includes a 9,748 s.m. (104,925 sq.ft.) social housing building (Building 1) as a major component of the public benefits derived from this and other rezonings within the Southeast False Creek precinct. Buildings 2 to 5 within the rezoning area, are to be entirely composed of market residential use.

This application follows the rezoning with a proposal for the first market residential building (Building 2). Furthermore, a separate Development Permit application for Building 1 has been recently submitted, and will be brought to the Development Permit Board at a later date. As a condition of the rezoning, the social housing component (Building 1) must be delivered to the City prior to the awarding of an Occupancy Permit for Buildings 3, 4 or 5."

Source: COV Development Permit Board website "1661 Quebec Street" details PDF page 6

I was in the sales centre the other day and apparently Voda and Social Housing are phase 1
Followed by the two buildings closer to the OV and finally phase 3 is the building to the north where the sales centre currently is.

[nds88]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

Ah yes, you are correct. The below text from the docs on this development also reveals how the city intends to protect itself from delayed building delivery..

"...[this development] includes a 9,748 s.m. (104,925 sq.ft.) social housing building (Building 1) as a major component of the public benefits derived from this and other rezonings within the Southeast False Creek precinct. Buildings 2 to 5 within the rezoning area, are to be entirely composed of market residential use.

This application follows the rezoning with a proposal for the first market residential building (Building 2). Furthermore, a separate Development Permit application for Building 1 has been recently submitted, and will be brought to the Development Permit Board at a later date. As a condition of the rezoning, the social housing component (Building 1) must be delivered to the City prior to the awarding of an Occupancy Permit for Buildings 3, 4 or 5."

Source: COV Development Permit Board website "1661 Quebec Street" details PDF page 6

What exactly is social housing? The definition is so broad. This article shows the city defines social housing as, "building in which at least 30 percent of the dwellings are occupied by households that cannot afford market rates". A white collar, middle class family that cannot afford a $10k/month Coal Harbour suite can technically have social housing if the city owns a unit and rents it to them for $3k/month.

This building in the OV is non-market which would have a 1 br rent out for ~$1,300 compared to a market rate of $1,500. No problems with the people that occupy these type of buildings. However, social housing can also include buildings like these which are given free to those off the streets. Police and ambulance are at the these type of buildings on a daily basis.

Where in the social housing definition spectrum is the Concert development going to be?

[VanK]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I think the slow sales (relatively) is also due to the huge volume that continues to come online. Developers seem to feel that rather than sitting on their land for longer, they are going to build and sell, even if that will go slower. Keeping in mind of course that there are multiple players here, not some master plan by a single developer.


Marine Gateway is a mystery to me. They literally sold for more per sf than OV, or areas downtown, plus the layouts were poor. Rennie is a sorcerer.

You are very correct in your points that there is a stream of supply of units that have been coming online in the OV which has kept prices supressed in the OV (for the time being). After build out of the OV I think values here will do well. OV had to sell the bulk of its units from standing inventory.

As for Marine Gateway, it didn't sell for more than the OV on a per square foot average.. MC2 & Marine Gateway were selling at relatively similar prices per square foot vs OV. Onni's project however did sell for more. There are a few points to consider when comparing the two areas. 1) Bigger avg units in OV vs Marine. Generally speaking, bigger units will sell for more on an absolute price but less than smaller units on a price per square foot basis .. 2) OV is generally mid-rises whereas Marine are towers which will get you a higher price per square foot due to simple floor bonusing as you get higher. I wouldn't give all the credit to Rennie...

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by VanK

As for Marine Gateway, it didn't sell for more than the OV on a per square foot average.. MC2 & Marine Gateway were selling at relatively similar prices per square foot vs OV. Onni's project however did sell for more. There are a few points to consider when comparing the two areas. 1) Bigger avg units in OV vs Marine. Generally speaking, bigger units will sell for more on an absolute price but less than smaller units on a price per square foot basis .. 2) OV is generally mid-rises whereas Marine are towers which will get you a higher price per square foot due to simple floor bonusing as you get higher. I wouldn't give all the credit to Rennie...

MG may have been similar to OV proper, ie: Millenium's buildings. But the subsequent surrounding building were equal or less than MG, I'm certain of that.

I agree that MG's units are smaller. But we're going to find out if 700sf 2 bedroom apartments are viable in the long term. I see them as too cramped for a room mate situation, and maybe just applicable to a couple.

[dleung]

Had a friend who almost bought a south-facing unit on W 1st Ave at the Olympic village, and changed his mind. He is glad he didn't, as the area turned out to be this horrifying grey blob.

[Vin]

Didn't Rennie also try to sell the original OV proper and wasn't robust so most units were slashed 30% off the original prices.

Marine Gateway sells out mostly because of the Canada Line train station, affordable market, ample retail, and a movie theatre. The perception of the future direction of that neighbourhood is good, although I don't think the City is going to allow more drastic rezoning there in the future.

Olympic Village has a lot to learn from it if it wants developers to sell out fast, otherwise prices of existing units would remain flat, which I guess could be a good thing for buyers, but not investors.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by dleung

Had a friend who almost bought a south-facing unit on W 1st Ave at the Olympic village, and changed his mind. He is glad he didn't, as the area turned out to be this horrifying grey blob.

That's what you get when you try to copy "European style" urban massing but at the same time cheapen on the architectural aspects of the buildings. Paris/Copenhagen/Stockholm are great because of all the heritage and ornate buildings. They are also good at having erecting eye-pleasing modern structures of similar massing in traditional areas. Failing to do so, we would be sure to create a depressing and drab neighbourhood: the modern Commie blocks in the making.

[squeezied]

Originally Posted by Vin

Didn't Rennie also try to sell the original OV proper and wasn't robust so most units were slashed 30% off the original prices.

Marine Gateway sells out mostly because of the Canada Line train station, affordable market, ample retail, and a movie theatre. The perception of the future direction of that neighbourhood is good, although I don't think the City is going to allow more drastic rezoning there in the future.

Olympic Village has a lot to learn from it if it wants developers to sell out fast, otherwise prices of existing units would remain flat, which I guess could be a good thing for buyers, but not investors.

What your "facts" don't reveal is that the marketing for the OV was during the economic downturn. Before the economic downturn, the first phase of the OV was selling fine. Iirc, it was sold out. The suites in the OV are also larger, which are harder to sell than smaller suites.

Your perceived lack of retail, and whatever grand things you imagine is not the main reason why the OV sold at the pace it did.

[squeezied]

Originally Posted by Vin

That's what you get when you try to copy "European style" urban massing but at the same time cheapen on the architectural aspects of the buildings. Paris/Copenhagen/Stockholm are great because of all the heritage and ornate buildings. They are also good at having erecting eye-pleasing modern structures of similar massing in traditional areas. Failing to do so, we would be sure to create a depressing and drab neighbourhood: the modern Commie blocks in the making.

So if you remove the height restrictions you'd get better architecture then? Your bias against the OV is getting worse and worse. You'd get the same architectural aspects regardless of height restrictions. If you want to blame someone, blame the developers. The fact that all these buildings are being built around the same time doesn't help in providing variety too. If the all condos from Yaletown were built around the same time, you'd get a pretty depressing and drab neighbourhood.

[PaperTiger]

Originally Posted by Vin

That's what you get when you try to copy "European style" urban massing but at the same time cheapen on the architectural aspects of the buildings. Paris/Copenhagen/Stockholm are great because of all the heritage and ornate buildings. They are also good at having erecting eye-pleasing modern structures of similar massing in traditional areas. Failing to do so, we would be sure to create a depressing and drab neighbourhood: the modern Commie blocks in the making.

I think you are forgetting that the projects in Europe that make the Architectural mags are the best examples. Most are plain "background buildings” For example, this is Stockholm:



(BTW All I did was google image modern residential district Stockholm. I wasn't trawling for the worst example.)

Most cities are like this, Europe Asia, America, it doesn't matter. In the few cities where every development is meant to be a masterpiece you actually end up with a city that is worse off. Singapore and Dubai come to mind individually many of the projects are striking. Collectively you get a disjointed cacophony.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by PaperTiger

I think you are forgetting that the projects in Europe that make the Architectural mags are the best examples. Most are plain "background buildings” For example, this is Stockholm:



(BTW All I did was google image modern residential district Stockholm. I wasn't trawling for the worst example.)

Most cities are like this, Europe Asia, America, it doesn't matter. In the few cities where every development is meant to be a masterpiece you actually end up with a city that is worse off. Singapore and Dubai come to mind individually many of the projects are striking. Collectively you get a disjointed cacophony.

This area of Stockholm must be the featureless part of it. Definitely not the more exciting parts of the city that's for sure! There is certainly no reason why we have to emulate that.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Vin

This area of Stockholm must be the featureless part of it. Definitely not the more exciting parts of the city that's for sure! There is certainly no reason why we have to emulate that.

90% of Stockholm is pretty featureless.

[WarrenC12]

Stories in the media today about people who have been camped out to get in on the early opening of the Voda showroom tomorrow. Being paid up to $1000 each according to reports.

1. Haven't people already had access to buy? Or just to look?

2. This seems comical when there's only a few units that will have permanently unobstructed water views, and there are good units at better prices in nearby developments for sale today.

[nds88]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Stories in the media today about people who have been camped out to get in on the early opening of the Voda showroom tomorrow. Being paid up to $1000 each according to reports.

1. Haven't people already had access to buy? Or just to look?

2. This seems comical when there's only a few units that will have permanently unobstructed water views, and there are good units at better prices in nearby developments for sale today.

1. Insiders have had access to buy for almost 2 weeks. I don't know how many insiders there are, but each insider has access to purchase 2 units for them self or their clients. Regular people have been able to look for over a week.

2. This is exactly my thought. Only the 2 br on the NW corner and the 2 br beside it facing north will have unobstructed water views. Completed sales of comparable units in the area are priced lower per SF. The views may have been slightly less impressive, but not worth an extra 10%

[vancouver604]

Originally Posted by nds88

1. Insiders have had access to buy for almost 2 weeks. I don't know how many insiders there are, but each insider has access to purchase 2 units for them self or their clients. Regular people have been able to look for over a week.

2. This is exactly my thought. Only the 2 br on the NW corner and the 2 br beside it facing north will have unobstructed water views. Completed sales of comparable units in the area are priced lower per SF. The views may have been slightly less impressive, but not worth an extra 10%

Actually only the NW Penthouse and 4 floors below on the NW Corner will have a view. The units facing directly north will be blocked by another tower and also the one's on the NW Corner below the 8th floor will be blocked by another building could be a low rise OR could be a tower they haven't decided for sure yet. Not sure why folks are lining up, the prices aren't' really good for something looking into another building, you can get something better elsewhere. Also they will have to deal with constant construction for a few years to come, very noisy!

[officedweller]

The theatre at Wall Centre False Creek has a new name:

BMO Theatre Centre


http://journalofcommerce.com/Projects/News/2015/7/PHOTO-BMO-Theatre-Centre-in-Vancouver-1009187W/

[LeftCoaster]

Why not just BMO Theatre?

BMO Theatre Centre sounds so clunky and redundant.

[officedweller]

The theatre inside bears a different donor name.

The performing theatre will have another name, the Goldcorp Stage. Goldcorp contributed $500,000 to the project.

http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/Olympic+Village+arts+complex+named/11234656/story.html