DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

They're going to tear this down?? That's a real shame. I've been in there back in the mid 90s when it was the piano bar, but yeah, architecture like this should be preserved when possible. There are still empty lots on 17th, aren't there? Or at least there are buildings of no historical value.

Oh yeh there's plenty of empty lots and some fugly looking buildings--some of which were built in the 90s that should probably be torn down. LOL

So looks like there's a new rendering out for the RiNo apartments next to Industry:

http://www.businessden.com/2015/07/14/rino-racking-up-230-more-apartments/#newsletter



Is it just me or do those top roofline black boxes or whatnot look like thick eyebrows??

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by bcp

and it's in good shape, holding the corner so nicely...losing a dying relic is one thing, but this thing is solid. not saying that it is historic officially, but here you would *hope* that the developer designs with some sensitivity.

I sent Southern Land Co an email from their site. I probably won't hear anything back. I'd really like to know what the plan is for this building.

[seventwenty]

Take the 16th Street Mall survey: https://corona.researchfeedback.net/wh/s.asp?k=143325416584

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

Take the 16th Street Mall survey: https://corona.researchfeedback.net/wh/s.asp?k=143325416584

There are questions in there about bus lanes. FYI guys.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

There are questions in there about bus lanes. FYI guys.

I'm excited to see that this isn't a lost battle.

[TakeFive]

Hot Topic; Hot off the presses.

How satisfied are renters in Colorado, Denver?
Jul 14, 2015 by Caitlin Hendee, Denver Business Journal

Renters are extremely satisfied with the state of Colorado, as well as with the city of Denver, according to a new report from Apartment List that ranks cities based on a renter confidence index — if they can afford it, that is.

If you click through to the survey - analysis it appears to be well done. However DBJ adds their own coloring from their Facebook and LinkedIn pages.

....said Don Ireland. "I talk with young people who are paying anywhere from $900 to $2,500 for a 500-square-foot studio (in someone's basement) or a 1-bedroom apartment in a hip part of town. Last week, I met a guy who pays $6,000 a month for a high-end apartment. Is this crazy or what?"

"This price to income ratio is not sustainable and it will inevitably correct itself," said Pete Morgan.

"Downtown Denver and surrounding neighborhoods are becoming pricy and unaffordable," said Greg Olson.

I do wonder if the worm isn't starting to turn. Many surveys or news items are lagging indicators depending partly on how dated the data is. Considering the number of apartment units that will need to be absorbed over the next 12-24 months; they could present a challenge.

Also the construction activity has spread out now; The Dirt mentions the Uptown & City Park neighborhoods. So much going on in Cherry Creek, LoHi and the whole west side and of course RiNo.

I don't see a sharp turn at this point but I have noticed a few economic bits of info that make me wonder a little. Be interesting to see how this year's growth numbers come in although (again) this wouldn't really be a leading indicator either.

Little things... RyanD could be exhibit 'A' I guess.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

They're going to tear this down?? That's a real shame. I've been in there back in the mid 90s when it was the piano bar, but yeah, architecture like this should be preserved when possible. There are still empty lots on 17th, aren't there? Or at least there are buildings of no historical value.

Why is everyone assuming that it will be torn down? I doubt the developer even has a design in place. I may be torn down but it seems way to early for this sort of despair.

Also why does it matter if there are other empty lots on 17th? It takes a lot more work to purchase a lot of this size than I think most people on the thread are willing to give credit to. Just because a developer can buy one lot, does not mean that other lots in the general areas are alternatives. Further not every parking lot owner want to sell. Some of those lots have revenues over a million dollars with very little capital expenses.

[bcp]

i'm with you...BUT..it's actually worse than we thought - current plans are to lose Tavern as well as a 90 year old apt. building along 16th that has 27 units (probably affordable). queue the outrage. this one is kinda sad.

I've gotta think and hope that denver zoning can now offer some flexibility / transfer rights to go taller in the middle, and allow for keeping the bookends at each end of the block. That would be my approach, but hey...it's their land now.

http://www.businessden.com/2015/07/13/developer-grabs-tavern-uptown-site/


from southern land co.

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by bcp

i'm with you...BUT..it's actually worse than we thought - current plans are to lose Tavern as well as a 90 year old apt. building along 16th that has 27 units (probably affordable). queue the outrage. this one is kinda sad.

I've gotta think and hope that denver zoning can now offer some flexibility / transfer rights to go taller in the middle, and allow for keeping the bookends at each end of the block. That would be my approach, but hey...it's their land now.

http://www.businessden.com/2015/07/13/developer-grabs-tavern-uptown-site/


from southern land co.

Those are FAR from the final renderings from the project (though I doubt an 8 story building will be able to preserve the Tavern building....it is likely a goner).

The building on 16th is absolutely nothing to be sad about losing. Of little historical significance and even less architectural significance. Despite its relatively impressive age it is actually quite the eye sore.....replacing it is welcome in the neighborhood.

Great to see some of these infill projects (along with CHF offices and 5280 senior residences, both slated to start this fall within a block of this project) moving south towards colfax in uptown. Will be great for the neighborhood. Along with the civic center renovation and proposed projects at the capitol (including capitol mall from Sherman to 16th) the area will be seeing a lot of activity in coming years. A lot of great businesses are popping up nearby (natural grocers, ssafaras, cheba hut....all replacing abandoned buildings)


Hopefully this will encourage an investor to step in and save the essex apartments at 16th and washington......across from this development. The currnet owners are running a 'hostel' which has left the property derelict and in disrepair. Now THAT is a building worth preserving.

[TakeFive]

Surveying the landscape for pending construction the only thing that rang a bell was White Lodging's Le Meridien/AC Hotel project and so far there's been no signs of life with that. There's a number of suggested "end of the year" projects but who knows with all that.

There has been a good number of starts already so no complaints. I was just wondering...

[Brainpathology]

Boy guys I don't know that apartment complex is going to wipe out a LOT of parking lot space. Nice building or not I think it's more than a fair trade regardless of what the eventually "ugly" apartment building looks like.

And really lets hope it IS ugly. So ugly that the only way they fill it is by charging cheaper rents, because apparently people don't work hard enough in Denver to afford the small apartments which are available now.

[bcp]

robert - welcome, first post!

obviously it's just a massing..but this is about context and scale. you might not be a fan of the existing buildings, but on occasion there is greater good to consider - so long as density / height bonuses, and parking reductions can be provided as an offset.

calling the apartments "quite the eyesore" is a bit of hyperbole i'd say...interesting to see how this shakes out.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

The building on 16th is absolutely nothing to be sad about losing. Of little historical significance and even less architectural significance. Despite its relatively impressive age it is actually quite the eye sore.....replacing it is welcome in the neighborhood.

This is actually some nice Capitol Hill quality old housing stock. It's probably semi affordable still.

Nah! Let's tear it down for some $2.50-$3.00 / sq ft rentals! We don't need no stinkin' crusty old housing stock near downtown Denver!

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Surveying the landscape for pending construction the only thing that rang a bell was White Lodging's Le Meridien/AC Hotel project and so far there's been no signs of life with that. There's a number of suggested "end of the year" projects but who knows with all that.

There has been a good number of starts already so no complaints. I was just wondering...

I have a friend in construction management who works for Hunt. He's been on the DIA Westin for the past few years, and with that wrapping up, has been reassigned to the White lodging hotel. I would think its a go; he's just resigned his lease so Hunt must be confident its starting soon.

[Robert.hampton]

Looks like Tavern is staying put within the development. http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_28...rtners-build-denvers-uptown-neighborhood

Judging by the "unique updated version" comment I doubt they will preserve the building but who knows?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by RyanD

This is actually some nice Capitol Hill quality old housing stock. It's probably semi affordable still.

Nah! Let's tear it down for some $2.50-$3.00 / sq ft rentals! We don't need no stinkin' crusty old housing stock near downtown Denver!

Reflect and...
* I get the whole millennial thingy of Denver being a popular place; that's been well discussed
* I get the post-recession "overnight success" of the popularity of urban living driven by millennials and other factors.
* I get that there was a quickly growing demand/need for a boatload of residential stock that could only be delivered over time.
* I get the role of a higher percentage of income going to housing balanced by some degree of urban efficient living.

The economic drivers are where?
* The oil & gas industry was one significant driver.
* Transit build out: Drop a few billion dollars and watch the money flow and recirculate.
* Urban development: Drop a few billion dollars and...
* Organic growth. Unlike porn it's much harder to see but it's there.

Population growth as an economic driver
It's true that more people create more demand for EVERYTHING. Metro Phoenix was the poster child for this for a few decades. But with that you had the growing retirement population. People who brought their assets with them and then created demand for all manner of things. Additionally, Scottsdale as a growing retreat for the rich and famous became a pool of investment ideas to a growing metro area. Also worth noting is that the "sprawl model" meant endless availability of cheap land.

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by RyanD

This is actually some nice Capitol Hill quality old housing stock. It's probably semi affordable still.

Nah! Let's tear it down for some $2.50-$3.00 / sq ft rentals! We don't need no stinkin' crusty old housing stock near downtown Denver!

I'm torn on this. It is affordable http://www.ta-properties.com/annabel_lee.html (I assume $800 is for a 2nd floor and $675 is for the basement) but it is also just a 2 story brick box. This building is like the 20s bargain-basement-construction-cost equivalent of all the EIFS monsters everyone is constantly complaining about. It's not a pretty building. A friend of mine lived there a long while back, and its no more special on the inside.

If the city was doing more to address affordability I wouldn't give this a second thought.

I hope that as more of these block-eating monsters are built that it relieves some of the demand on the older buildings near downtown so they don't have the financial encouragement to overcharge (like they do now). Unfortunately those hopes might hinge on either a LOT more mediocre new buildings or a lot less people moving here.

[corey]

Ah yes! You can see the charming car wash right at center of the Uptown aerial photo posted. Actually, it is right at the center of Uptown. I think I will apply to have it designated a historic building just so the owner will rip it down out of spite.

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

]
Along with the civic center renovation and proposed projects at the capitol (including capitol mall from Sherman to 16th) the area will be seeing a lot of activity in coming years.

A lot of great businesses are popping up nearby (natural grocers, ssafaras, cheba hut....all replacing abandoned buildings)

Wait, what's the Capitol Mall? ** Never mind, found it. That Google is something else...**

And I think you meant to say Sassafras. I love that place!

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

Looks like Tavern is staying put within the development. http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_28...rtners-build-denvers-uptown-neighborhood

Judging by the "unique updated version" comment I doubt they will preserve the building but who knows?

Denver Business Journal link here:http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/r...to-get-315-apartment-topper-on-17th.html

It confirms the original building WILL be torn down.


Other Iinteresting tid bits include a new "unnamed New York City-based real estate investment firm." And "The Tavern will also have a rooftop patio with high-speed elevator access once the eight-story development is complete."