PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Not sure if this has been posted before...

Paper Lofts where N Craig and Bigelow come together just before the Bloomfield Bridge. I've thought for years about how this building (and others along this stretch) would be great conversions to residential. The views of the East End are incredible. That beautiful self-storage building just down the street at the intersection with the Bloomfield Bridge is begging for conversion -- such a waste to use it as a storage facility.


http://www.thepaperlofts.space/

Awesome. I've been looking at that building for 25 years hoping that something would happen with it.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The article linked a few pages back said 318 apartments, although who knows how many of those are actually occupied.

There you go--I was probably half-remembering that.

I just mentally roughed out a site plan, and I was getting actually a bit more than double the current space, all while accommodating St Clair coming through and preserving the internal green space (but not all the lawns nearest Penn).

[BrianTH]

By the way, here is what has been happening with Macy's lately:



This announcement follows on a bunch of other scheduled store closings announced back in January:

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-macys-to-cut-jobs-close-14-stores-2015-1

Interestingly if you look at that article, it details how Macy's is trying to move into more direct competition with Amazon:

The retailer said its workforce was expected to remain at a level of about 175,000 as it expects to hire associates to expand its direct-to-consumer business. Macy's has spent nearly $2 billion on IT and e-commerce projects over the past five years to compete with online giants such as Amazon.com Inc. Ship-from-store, a service that allows customers to order from another Macy's store if the item is not available and have it sent to their home, has helped Macy's keep a tight hold on inventory. Picking up goods from stores after ordering online, a service being rolled out at all large Macy's and Bloomingdale's stores, has also gained popularity as shoppers can save shipping charges and collect orders when they want.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Downtown Cincinnati has Macy's and Saks Fifth Avenue.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ne...-execs-on-downtown-cincinnati-we-re.html

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/mo...pressure-to-sell-nyc-flagship-other.html

Although Saks desperately tried to flee Downtown Cincy for a new suburban development. In 2013, only 10 years after Saks successfully extorted the City of Cincinnati to pay for $8.7M in upgrades for the store, Saks announced they would leave Downtown for the suburban Kenwood Collection in Sycamore Township. You may recall Saks tried to extort the City of Pittsburgh for millions in 2012 - and promptly left the market when Pittsburgh refused their demands.

However, in 2014, Saks and Kenwood failed to come to terms on a deal, and Saks has remained Downtown... but for how long?

[BrianTH]

Unfortunately we learned that lesson too late for the interior of the Mellon National Bank Building, and too late to save all the money wasted on Lazarus:

http://www.alleghenyinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/components/com_policy/uploads/vol4no3.pdf

[BrianTH]

Interesting article on the Macy's closing:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ne...osing-doesnt-necessarily-spell-doom.html

One thing I certainly agree with is that Downtown could probably use something like an urban-format Target. And in fact I wonder if something like that could be a good fit in this building.

[Evergrey]

I have to admit... in the three years I've been working Downtown and living nearby in Deutschtown... I haven't once visited Macy's. In fact, I've only ever shopped there once... right before Xmas when I was in grad school about 7 years ago.

Stale department store concepts like Macy's don't seem to have much appeal to urban Millennials.

[BrianTH]

They had a pretty big selection of men's belts, and for whatever reason I sometimes need a belt on short notice.

I guess that was not enough to keep them going.

[Gilamonster]

The Macy's closing is certainly not good news but I don't think it's that big of a deal at all. There are already plans for the building which include residential and possibly hotel which will add residents and vibrancy to downtown and mitigate the job loss. Actually, A decent sized hotel and restaurant would probably make the jobs situation a wash.
There will be plenty of retail left in town. It will just be the smaller and more specialized stores. I completely agree with Evergrey's point above. Really what is the average age of a Macy's shopper? Does anyone under 30 ever walk in there except to use the restrooms? I think this speaks volumes to the demographic of the Pittsburgh worker and resident. When I first read about this, I was a little concerned, but the more I think about it, I am actually excited for this to happen.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Downtown Boston definitely does -- a Macy's. Miami has a downtown Macy's, and will have more (including a flagship Saks 5th Ave as an anchor) once Brickell City Center opens. Minneapolis has a downtown Macy's and a Target. Downtown Dallas has Neiman Marcus. Downtown DC has a Macy's. And I think downtown LA has a Macy's and a Target.

I'm sure there are more that still have department stores... and there are plenty of others that have downtown stores like TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Ross, etc.

I wasn't referring to only one department store, Private Dick. Yes, Minneapolis has Target because it's based there. Same for Neiman Marcus with Dallas. Boston has a flagship Macy's because of Filene's, just like Houston had it's flagship Macy's because of Foley's (since shuttered, demolished and replaced with a 25 or so story tower currently under construction). I was referring to cities with real, honest downtown retail cores. There are only a select few cities with such things, quite frankly.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Minivan Werner]

There's just no reason for a person to go to a Macy's in downtown when you can go to Ross Park and hit up Macy's and Nordstrom's and JCPenney's with much more convenient parking.

Downtown and urban areas are going to be less about chains and more about specialty stores and mom-and-pop stuff. As it probably should be.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Gilamonster

When I first read about this, I was a little concerned, but the more I think about it, I am actually excited for this to happen.

Yeah, big picture--that is a HUGE building complex, and at this point it is extremely underutilized. If it gets filled up with activity, Downtown Pittsburgh is going to be better off, in one way or another.

Of course it does need tenants, so this is sort of like hearing a possible major tenant has decided not to sign a lease. That's not necessarily great news, but if the project can still go forward without them, that is not necessarily bad news either. And in fact in the long run, it could have no lasting impact at all.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

There's just no reason for a person to go to a Macy's in downtown when you can go to Ross Park and hit up Macy's and Nordstrom's and JCPenney's with much more convenient parking.

Downtown and urban areas are going to be less about chains and more about specialty stores and mom-and-pop stuff. As it probably should be.

As a near-Downtown resident... I have no reason to go to Ross Park. I've been there once... to take a walk when all the sidewalks were iced over a couple winters ago. McKnightmare holds no appeal for me other than Taj Mahal.

[chiaroscuro]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Yeah, big picture--that is a HUGE building complex, and at this point it is extremely underutilized. If it gets filled up with activity, Downtown Pittsburgh is going to be better off, in one way or another.

Of course it does need tenants, so this is sort of like hearing a possible major tenant has decided not to sign a lease. That's not necessarily great news, but if the project can still go forward without them, that is not necessarily bad news either. And in fact in the long run, it could have no lasting impact at all.

If they keep the ground floor retail, it would go hand in hand with Peduto's idea to turn Smithfield into a "boutique boulevard".

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

There's just no reason for a person to go to a Macy's in downtown when you can go to Ross Park and hit up Macy's and Nordstrom's and JCPenney's with much more convenient parking.

Downtown and urban areas are going to be less about chains and more about specialty stores and mom-and-pop stuff. As it probably should be.

I guess. I've been to the Ross Park Mall once in the last twenty years but I'm not a big brick-and-mortar shopper in general. To be fair, I live within walking distance of the Downtown Macy's and haven't been in there for over a decade either. It's too convenient to shop online to every want to go and fight mall traffic ever again.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Although Saks desperately tried to flee Downtown Cincy for a new suburban development. In 2013, only 10 years after Saks successfully extorted the City of Cincinnati to pay for $8.7M in upgrades for the store, Saks announced they would leave Downtown for the suburban Kenwood Collection in Sycamore Township. You may recall Saks tried to extort the City of Pittsburgh for millions in 2012 - and promptly left the market when Pittsburgh refused their demands.

However, in 2014, Saks and Kenwood failed to come to terms on a deal, and Saks has remained Downtown... but for how long?

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Unfortunately we learned that lesson too late for the interior of the Mellon National Bank Building, and too late to save all the money wasted on Lazarus:

http://www.alleghenyinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/components/com_policy/uploads/vol4no3.pdf

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Interesting article on the Macy's closing:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ne...osing-doesnt-necessarily-spell-doom.html

One thing I certainly agree with is that Downtown could probably use something like an urban-format Target. And in fact I wonder if something like that could be a good fit in this building.

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I have to admit... in the three years I've been working Downtown and living nearby in Deutschtown... I haven't once visited Macy's. In fact, I've only ever shopped there once... right before Xmas when I was in grad school about 7 years ago.

Stale department store concepts like Macy's don't seem to have much appeal to urban Millennials.

The only sad thing is that is has been there forever. In reality, downtown gigantic department stores are decades, perhaps a half century past their relevance.

If you guys AREN'T friends with Bill Peduto's account on Facebook, do it now. He often posts relevant one liners on the important topics.

Here was his perfect response about Macy's:

"As much as it hurts to see Macy's leave downtown, big subsidies to national retailers has not been an effective downtown strategy."

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

As a near-Downtown resident... I have no reason to go to Ross Park. I've been there once... to take a walk when all the sidewalks were iced over a couple winters ago. McKnightmare holds no appeal for me other than Taj Mahal.

Umm, let's not discount the awesome Sushi buffet restaurant: Tokyo. It seriously rules & it's right in the beginning of McKnight next to the Best Buy. Takes me less than 10 minutes to drive there from Spring Hill.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

All of this E Liberty apartment talk had me thinking about these. Anyone remember these lovely views?

Good riddance. Same for the East Lib Penn Towers.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Not sure if this has been posted before...

Paper Lofts where N Craig and Bigelow come together just before the Bloomfield Bridge. I've thought for years about how this building (and others along this stretch) would be great conversions to residential. The views of the East End are incredible. That beautiful self-storage building just down the street at the intersection with the Bloomfield Bridge is begging for conversion -- such a waste to use it as a storage facility.









http://www.thepaperlofts.space/

This looks wonderful.
More of these developments please, developers! Young people, especially the fabled millenials of which I am one CRAVE authenticity and a little bit of grit but of course with modern amenities. I think it's the anti-suburb movement after many of us spent our lives in well manicured yet soulless suburbs and cul-de-sacs.

[BrianTH]

Another interesting roundup on Macy's, touching on many of the subjects we discussed here (e.g., declining department store sales due to Internet competition):

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/pit...cy-s-store-to-close/stories/201507130124

It is sort of interesting how as they cut their store count, these companies are becoming in part real estate holding companies:

Macy’s CFO Karen M. Hoguet told analysts at a June retail conference that the chain is focused on creating value with its real estate, although it was still figuring the best way to do that. She said real estate values have risen since the end of the Great Recession.

Again, as we have been noting, "real estate holding company sells huge historic downtown property to developer looking to do mix of residential, hotel, and retail" is not at all a bad story.