PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

1. They managed to get Ricky Burgess to sit down with LG Realty Advisors and get across the message that the Penn Plaza apartments are zoned residential, and there was no way the complex could get razed and replaced with a strip mall or office without major variances, which would not be granted. They are hoping they can convince the owners to sell to ELDI, who would then partially rehab/partially reconstruct the site. I didn't realize until he told me that an almost identical building was reskinned on the north side of Penn as part of New Pennley Place.

These guys are a study in how to not get things done in an urban area.

Anyway, I do have some concerns about the current intensity of land use, so it would be cool if it could be bumped up a bit.

I didn't know that about New Pennley Place either, but then when you look at an overhead and streetview of the buildings, it becomes sorta obvious (swivel left and right):

New Pennley Place

So that is in fact encouraging.

2. I also inquired about the Mellon's Orchard project on Negley (as opposed to the Penn Circle one). He confirmed that all of the buildings, even the cool early 20th century walkups, are going to be demolished if the funding for the project cleared. He said the demolition of those buildings was unfortunate, but there was no way they could work the financing of the project correctly with rehabs and the smaller site footprint taken up by the ugly mid-20th century apartments.

Well, I am now officially rooting against their financing. Seems to me this is the sort situation where some patience could ultimately lead to a better result.

[GeneW]

I didn't realize until he told me that an almost identical building was reskinned on the north side of Penn as part of New Pennley Place.

Yeah, the apartments on both sides of the street, the tower that straddled Penn and the tower where the Target is now were all in the same architectural style.

[JVC]

the sad state of new pittsburgh architecture

when the building doesn't need a turret it has one



when the building would benefit from having a turret it's not there

[TBone7281]

So, I'm not sure if I'm confused, or if Oxford has just been throwing around random information with nothing to back it up, but apparently they don't own the Easter Seals property in the Strip yet:

Oxford Plans to Make Strip District Development

From my recollection, this property has been included in their overall Three Crossings plan for quite a while. In fact, within the last few months they have put up new data on their site for BOTH new buildings and said they were slated for completion in 2016. I always thought that was unlikely since Easter Seals is still using the building.

Riverfront West

Riverfront East

[JVC]

Originally Posted by eschaton

here was no way the complex could get razed and replaced with a strip mall or office without major variances, which would not be granted.


They are hoping they can convince the owners to sell to ELDI

one sentence says "no way you're getting your variances" and then the next sentence says "we're hoping we can convince them" - sounds like all bark and no bite

playing devil's advocate, the neighborhood already has two big box retailers that supposedly are successful - why would anyone object to a third one, especially if the developer commits to an urban design which the home depot clearly lacks?

maybe eldi should find a developer to add another thousand apartment units to the neighborhood - clearly east liberty doesn't have nearly enough new apartment building construction

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

These guys are a study in how to not get things done in an urban area.

ELDI are a study in how to not get things done? Could you elaborate?

Originally Posted by JVC

one sentence says "no way you're getting your variances" and then the next sentence says "we're hoping we can convince them" - sounds like all bark and no bite

I think the idea is "you can't ever use the property for your own specialty (retail) - we'll buy it and redevelop it as mixed-use residential, given that's our forte."

I don't think 1,000 apartments could fit on the site, given any infill is likely to be of 3-4 story level at max, and he said they want to keep the park in the center of the property (although they do want to reconnect Saint Clair). 600 units is probably feasible though.

[Private Dick]

All of this E Liberty apartment talk had me thinking about these. Anyone remember these lovely views?

[Private Dick]

Not sure if this has been posted before...

Paper Lofts where N Craig and Bigelow come together just before the Bloomfield Bridge. I've thought for years about how this building (and others along this stretch) would be great conversions to residential. The views of the East End are incredible. That beautiful self-storage building just down the street at the intersection with the Bloomfield Bridge is begging for conversion -- such a waste to use it as a storage facility.









http://www.thepaperlofts.space/

[JVC]

breaking news from our supposedly vibrant downtown area

Macy’s Sells Downtown Pittsburgh Building for Redevelopment; Store to Close
http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/2610056#ixzz3fmS8N2BR

not that it's fair to compare pittsburgh to new york city but what is the likelihood of the headline
"bloomingdale's to close in manhattan"

this closing is a clear indication that 90% of the development in this city is nothing but a speculative real estate bubble
if the demand was real then macy's downtown would be thriving, not closing

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by JVC

breaking news from our supposedly vibrant downtown area

Macy’s Sells Downtown Pittsburgh Building for Redevelopment; Store to Close
http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/2610056#ixzz3fmS8N2BR

not that it's fair to compare pittsburgh to new york city but what is the likelihood of the headline
"bloomingdales to close in manhattan"

this closing is a clear indication that 90% of the development in this city is nothing but a speculative real estate bubble

This has little to do with Pittsburgh per se. It has to do with the bad economy for department stores since the rise of big-box, and brick-and-mortar retail for roughly the last decade. There are maybe a half dozen cities which have strong shopping districts in Downtown - all of which are substantially larger than Pittsburgh. It was also widely expected to be inevitable once Macy's bought out Kaufmann's.

That said, the elimination of Downtown jobs is never a good thing - particularly working-class jobs, where access to mass transit can be very important. I have been concerned for some time that like many cities, Pittsburgh is seeing most of its non-professional jobs (barring hotels and restaurants) moving out of the urban core and into the suburbs. This is just another step in that direction.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

ELDI are a study in how to not get things done? Could you elaborate?

Sorry, I used an insufficiently specific pronoun. I meant LG Realty Advisors--they seem to have a knack for launching projects in a way that makes a lot of people very mad, all while still needing variances and such that will require political support.

I don't think 1,000 apartments could fit on the site, given any infill is likely to be of 3-4 story level at max, and he said they want to keep the park in the center of the property (although they do want to reconnect Saint Clair). 600 units is probably feasible though.

How many units does Penn Plaza have already? It has to be quite a few, I would think--maybe 300ish?

Even ignoring the green space (and I for one would not ENTIRELY ignore the green space), I'd agree you should be able to roughly double that just with the land being used for surface parking lots (this would be on the vision of using either parking podiums or parking structures).

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Not sure if this has been posted before...

I certainly haven't seen it before, and it looks great! These industrial loft conversions are incredibly popular these days, and Pittsburgh still has so many more it can do.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by eschaton

This has little to do with Pittsburgh per se. It has to do with the bad economy for department stores since the rise of big-box, and brick-and-mortar retail for roughly the last decade. There are maybe a half dozen cities which have strong shopping districts in Downtown - all of which are substantially larger than Pittsburgh. It was also widely expected to be inevitable once Macy's bought out Kaufmann's.

That said, the elimination of Downtown jobs is never a good thing - particularly working-class jobs, where access to mass transit can be very important. I have been concerned for some time that like many cities, Pittsburgh is seeing most of its non-professional jobs (barring hotels and restaurants) moving out of the urban core and into the suburbs. This is just another step in that direction.

There are definitely more than a half-dozen cities with strong downtown retail, but yes, the numbers continue to dwindle, eschaton. Other than the stalwarts NYC, Chicago and San Francisco, you can throw in Seattle, probably Portland, Miami (Beach), San Diego (if you cound Horton Plaza, the downtown shopping mall, which I personally do) and perhaps a couple of others. Boston, perhaps? But yes, more and more downtowns are losing their major department stores, no doubt about it.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

That said, the elimination of Downtown jobs is never a good thing - particularly working-class jobs, where access to mass transit can be very important. I have been concerned for some time that like many cities, Pittsburgh is seeing most of its non-professional jobs (barring hotels and restaurants) moving out of the urban core and into the suburbs. This is just another step in that direction.

Maybe, but are we sure whatever else ends up happening in that building won't support around as many or more such jobs? Specifically, it is likely going to have hotel and restaurant components. Residential also supports some such jobs, as would office.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by glowrock

But yes, more and more downtowns are losing their major department stores, no doubt about it.

Yeah, I see it as more a department store issue than a retail in general issue. Department stores just don't have any natural advantages these days--you can get better service and more current products at boutiques, and better pricing at discount stores, and better pricing and selection online. With companies like Amazon making it easier and quicker to get products, and then easier to return them if necessary, it seems to me like the case for department stores is really just disappearing entirely, at least where these other options are achieving high penetration.

In any event, in this case there is both a seller and a buyer, and the buyer has ambitious plans for the building. So, it seems awfully premature to conclude this is a net economic loss for Downtown, or even specifically a net loss in terms of entry-level jobs.

[Evergrey]

So Downtown is losing its Macy's... but at least retail development continues unabated along McKnight Road! A Longhorn Steakhouse and a Texas Roadhouse in the same development? I must be in heaven!

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/north/...elopment-progresses/stories/201507100012

McCandless Crossing development progresses

July 10, 2015 12:00 AM

Driving recently on the newly paved portion of Providence Boulevard toward McCandless Crossing’s future Town Center, project manager Bob McGurk clearly was pleased with the development’s progress.

“This is the finest project in Western Pennsylvania,” he said, adding that he receives positive comments from residents on a daily basis. “Everyone is saying how beautiful and convenient it is, and they can’t wait for more.”

He offered positive reports about Dick’s Sporting Goods, Home Goods, Cinemark, Trader Joe’s, BJ’s, Panera Bread and Longhorn Steakhouse, adding that the new businesses in phase IV on the east side of McKnight Road are creating hundreds of jobs.

On a recent visit, construction workers populated the sites of future businesses such as Chipotle and Bonefish Grill, shoppers strolled on new sidewalks and autos pulled into businesses’ drive-thru lanes next to hundreds of parking places.

“People enjoy being able to walk to everything,” said Mr. McGurk, adding that township officials have just approved a Fairfield Inn for a site behind the Cinemark. A Home 2 Suites by Hilton, which opened on the west side of McKnight in 2013 as part of the development’s phase III, often is full, he said.

McCandless Crossing’s main street resembles a Hollywood set in production, as building facades await tenants such as Gigi’s Cupcakes, Hat’s Off Hair Design, Massage Envy Spa and Hello Bistro.

Old Navy, Burgatory, European Wax Center, Style Encore and Ethan Allen are slated to move in later this year.

Bruce Betty, McCandless land use administrator and zoning officer, said the east side of the development is approximately 75 percent complete, while roughly half of the land on the west side of McKnight is still awaiting buildings.

“Even though Lowes and LA Fitness were among the first businesses to open, we still have empty space between Doodle Bugs and LA Fitness,” he said, adding that Dentistry for Kids and Texas Roadhouse are the newest additions to the southwestern corner. “Up in front of Lowe’s, a Fifth Third bank got approval but is trying to sell the property.”

The only side left to approve on the eastern side of the development is an office building that will be built across from Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church on Providence Boulevard. Ryan Homes is building on the northeastern corner, and finished homes along Cumberland Road are occupied.

Special attention has been given to landscaping.

“We’ve created a buffer along McKnight Road which creates the illusion that there’s no highway cutting through the development,” said Mr. McGurk.

Another landscaping feature is a rain garden in the middle of Dick’s parking lot. Rainwater drains into the garden and the soil filtrates it.

...

A 12-foot, 8-inch Verdin tower clock has arrived from the Cincinnati factory where it was made and soon will be erected in the center of the town’s green plaza. The 80-by-160-foot plaza will represent the civic art portion of the development and also feature a ground-level water fountain.

...

[JVC]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Yeah, I see it as more a department store issue than a retail in general issue. Department stores just don't have any natural advantages these days

if that is the case then explain this chart showing macy's stock (and earnings) have performed exceptionally well over the past six years

Originally Posted by BrianTH

In any event, in this case there is both a seller and a buyer, and the buyer has ambitious plans for the building. So, it seems awfully premature to conclude this is a net economic loss for Downtown, or even specifically a net loss in terms of entry-level jobs.

it's alway entertaining to watch people try to put a positive spin on news that is unequivocally bad

maybe this forum should be renamed PITTSBURGH Development Is Rundown

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by glowrock

There are definitely more than a half-dozen cities with strong downtown retail, but yes, the numbers continue to dwindle, eschaton. Other than the stalwarts NYC, Chicago and San Francisco, you can throw in Seattle, probably Portland, Miami (Beach), San Diego (if you cound Horton Plaza, the downtown shopping mall, which I personally do) and perhaps a couple of others. Boston, perhaps? But yes, more and more downtowns are losing their major department stores, no doubt about it.

Aaron (Glowrock)

Downtown Boston definitely does -- a Macy's. Miami has a downtown Macy's, and will have more (including a flagship Saks 5th Ave as an anchor) once Brickell City Center opens. Minneapolis has a downtown Macy's and a Target. Downtown Dallas has Neiman Marcus. Downtown DC has a Macy's. And I think downtown LA has a Macy's and a Target.

I'm sure there are more that still have department stores... and there are plenty of others that have downtown stores like TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Ross, etc.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Downtown Boston definitely does -- a Macy's. Miami has a downtown Macy's, and will have more (including a flagship Saks 5th Ave as an anchor) once Brickell City Center opens. Minneapolis has a downtown Macy's and a Target. Downtown Dallas has Neiman Marcus. Downtown DC has a Macy's. And I think downtown LA has a Macy's and a Target.

I'm sure there are more that still have department stores... and there are plenty of others that have downtown stores like TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Ross, etc.

Downtown Cincinnati has Macy's and Saks Fifth Avenue.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ne...-execs-on-downtown-cincinnati-we-re.html

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/mo...pressure-to-sell-nyc-flagship-other.html

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

How many units does Penn Plaza have already? It has to be quite a few, I would think--maybe 300ish?

The article linked a few pages back said 318 apartments, although who knows how many of those are actually occupied.