Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[Riise]

Originally Posted by logan5

The CFL is way down on the list of league ranking as far as revenue generated goes, so I think we're pretty lucky that we have these new stadiums coming online. Hockey is our sport, not soccer. Our cast off NHL rinks (like the old Pacific Coliseum) would probably be kick ass hockey venues in a lot of European countries.

Instead of pissing on other sports couldn't you have just said that even the most Canadian of sports isn't in a rush to increase the capacity of its arenas?

[Oilkountry]

Wow matrix. That very first Picture made me smile ear to ear. We all have our Opinions of exterior (which has grown on me tremendously) But that interior is absolutely beautiful and I can guarantee you nobody on this thread will disagree. Congrats to quebec city on canadas newest arena and hopefully newest nhl team

[Matrix19]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Wow matrix. That very first Picture made me smile ear to ear. We all have our Opinions of exterior (which has grown on me tremendously) But that interior is absolutely beautiful and I can guarantee you nobody on this thread will disagree. Congrats to quebec city on canadas newest arena and hopefully newest nhl team

[thurmas]

There are several reasons why the NFL left the CFL in the dust starting in the early 1980's some were out of the CFL's control and others were self inflicted wounds.

1- popularity of MLB in Toronto and Montreal with the Expos and Jays enjoying their first taste of success in the early and mid 80's was new and exciting for many Canadians and gave them a sense that we have made it to the big time competing against the New York Yankees and LA Dodgers instead of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats or Winnipeg Blue Bombers.

2- NFL tv contracts grew so rich and bountiful the CFL had no chance of competing against it coupled with the arrival of the USFL in the mid 80's who were throwing money around like there was no tomorrow the CFL was squeezed out of the loop on finding new talent.

The CFL made their own stupid decisions such as the Alouettes bungling in the 80's singing Vince Feragamo as a bust, changing their name to Concordes the following season and putting horrible clubs on the field from 1981 to 1986.

The CFL and their tv blackout policy with home teams always blocking the broadcast in their local markets thinking it would help sell tickets was suicide.

In 1987 was dealt a double whammy of bad news that made them incredibly weak with the folding of the Alouettes 5 days before the 87 season was about to begin and their tv deal with Carling O'Keefe was cut in half from $1.2 million annually per club to $600,000 because of plunging tv ratings.

[esquire]

^ Then there's the broader issue of a relentless stream of media coverage from the US which feeds Canadians an immense amount of information about the NFL. Our market is much smaller so CFL coverage was historically restricted to whatever games were shown on the networks and maybe a bit of sports news on the side... but nearly every Canadian gets TV channels, magazines and newspapers which expose them to NFL content.

Being next to the world's biggest media goliath does make it a challenge for domestic sports leagues. Mexico has a bit of a buffer in that they speak a different language, but we don't.

[SkahHigh]

Centre Vidéotron is DOPE. It makes me cringe how with such a passionate fanbase and a new arena the Panthers still haven't relocated to Quebec City. I know it's not that simple, but it just pains me to see a half-filled arena in Sunrise. Almost insulting really...

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Agreed. I love Centre Vidéotron. Inside and outside. Lots of people don't like the outside, but I see it and I know where I am and I see what it alludes to. People don't like that, but it makes it a landmark stadium for that reason.

[Steveston]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

That's exactly what I mean though what revenue generating "mechanisms" does the new buildings of today (console,barclays,videotron) have that the bell centre and honda center lack? At what point does the the NHL (bettman) look at the SAP center and give it the same speech he gave rexall "No NHL team will play hockey in this building much longer"

To me I just don't see a huge difference from these 90's venues to the post 2010 venues. The bones of the buildings can stay around for 100 years and be in the same condition they were the day they were installed so does that mean once MSG gets replaced in 9 years we wont see another building in the NHL for 50+ years? The CTC is fine that whole "this place wasn't built to last 50 years" speech was bull! That is one of the leagues nicest building and to call it outdated as it approaches it's 20th birthday is just ridiculous. Posturing from the sens ownership, this isn't Atlanta. One could argue that rexall could house the Oilers perfectly fine for another 40 years.

Speaking of Rexall I can tell you that place looks amazing. The place is spotless. Like the MTS Centre, Edmonton has done a great job on keeping up with the building, The concrete walls in the bowl just makes it feel really old but I love that place I'm definetly gonna catch an oilers game when the jets are in town just to say goodbye to the ol girl (just in case). Ive been to all 3 California based teams and I can tell you they dont have the same mentality although sanjose's wasn't THAT bad. The worst by far was Nassau OMG was that a terrible rink in every way possible. Every bathroom you passes you swore you were gonna puke.


if this were true than why isnt commonwealth full? BC place? Rogers centre? Riders aren't even selling the seats they have at Mosaic right now.One of the entire end zone was practically empty on their home opener . They sure as hell didn't sell out the grey cup configuration out when it was available for regular season.

The trend in almost all sports is slimming down seating on existing buildings or building smaller than previous. It's just the way it's going. The CFL is a gate driven league so its extremely unfortunate for us but MLB,NFL,NBA,NHL all don't rely so heavily on ticket sales.

Again back to my post a few days ago. You older guys are stuck in the 70's "back in my day" mentality. It's a different world. All these stadiums being built are expandable if needed so don't worry.

Stadiums like BC Place are not single-tenant buildings. So why would you limit your capacity based on the current attendance of one tenant? When BCPlace's roof need replacement before the Olympics, the Provincial Government could have gone several ways: simply replace the roof with the same material and kept the rest of the stadium the same; replaced the whole stadium with a new building, at whatever size, location and configuration they felt was best; renovate, but dramatically reduce the capacity; or do what they did (renovate, with a minor decrease in capacity).

Your preferred option is, obviously, based on what you want/need/expect from the largest venue in the Province. Is it just for the Lions/Whitecaps? If so, then 30,000 is probably fine. Do you want to host league championships and major events? Then go 50,000+. Do you also want to continue to host the types of events which the 'old' BC Place hosted (big concerts, indoor carnivals, trade shows, consumer shows)? Then incorporate a retractable roof (because nobody builds a fixed roof anymore).

So, while it's acknowledged that a regular season Lions or 'Caps game will not fill all the seats, a decision was made to ensure that the renovated stadium would still be able to attract events like the World Cup Final match (which I'm pretty sure wouldn't have gone to a 30,000 seat renovated stadium).

The concept of an essentially brand new 54,000 seat stadium, located right downtown, adjacent to two rapid transit lines, for $550 million, was obviously appealing to the Provincial Government, when faced with the alternatives.

[Oilkountry]

I guess it all depends what you want. Do you want a terrible atmosphere and a half empty building for your regular tenants to gain 20,000 extra seats for the odd event that can fill it or do you build an IGF and have a great atmosphere at the expense of the odd U2 concert. The reason BC place was rebuilt instead of replaced is because the location. And the guts of the stadium were still in great shape. It wasn't like they were rebuilding Cannad inns. And look at the problems it has caused for the lions constantly shifting seating configurations to accommodate a half empty building. You can still host almost any event just as successfully in this country with a 30k seat venue than a 50k either than the odd soccer game.

Indoor trade shows and carnivals is an argument for covered venues vs open air not so much size or seating capacity. IMO We have enough 50k seat buildings in this country. Calgary adding another would be useless with commonwealth 2 hours down the road.

[The Fisher Account]

The trend nowadays is smaller stadiums anyway.

With television availability, you don't need to try and pack people into the nosebleeds. You need 2 levels and need to focus on the in-game entertainment and "funzones".

The CFL is approaching this correctly.

[Oilkountry]

Not sure if this is the top or bottom ring but holy cow is it gonna be a big board.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Nicko999

At the end of the day, we shouldn't be afraid to build bigger stadiums. Having bigger capacity can only help the CFL grow.

EDIT: Not implying we should be building 50,000 stadiums all over the place for the sake of building them. We should however build newer AND bigger stadiums if the demand is there.

Future NFL stadiums could feature less sitting, more standing
Mike Florio January 27, 2013

Our pal Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times has written an article that looks at the various challenges the NFL is facing. One of the biggest arises from persuading fans to choose to attend games over watching them at home.

Late in the item comes an intriguing prediction about the configuration of future NFL stadiums, courtesy of NFL executive V.P. of business operations Eric Grubman.

“What if a new stadium we built wasn’t 70,000, but it was 40,000 seats with 20,000 standing room?” Grubman said. “But the standing room was in a bar-type environment with three sides of screens, and one side where you see the field. Completely connected. And in those three sides of screens, you not only got every piece of NFL content, including replays, Red Zone [Channel], and analysis, but you got every other piece of news and sports content that you would like to have if you were at home.

“Now you have the game, the bar and social setting, and you have the content. What’s that ticket worth? What’s that environment feel like to a young person? Where do you want to be? Do you want to be in that seat, or do you want to be in that pavilion?”

Plenty of people would choose to be in the pavilion, if the price is right. (And if the beer isn’t priced quite so high.)

Grubman’s example, with a 70,000-seat stadium becoming a 60,000-person hybrid, reflects another inevitable reality for the NFL. To maintain the buzz of a full stadium, stadiums may need to get smaller.

“A restaurant isn’t as good if there’s only four people in there,” 49ers CEO Jed York said. “When a restaurant is hustling and bustling, it just feels better, the food tastes better because you see everybody else enjoying it. That’s the same thing for any live event. Great bands, if you don’t have a great crowd, then the band isn’t quite as good.”

He’s right — and it’s wise for the league to continuously be thinking about ways to adapt the business model to ensure that business continues to thrive, not only on TV but inside each and every stadium.

[elly63]

Was just cruising around the old forum and found this old shot of FCS and noticed just how overwhelming the north stand roof was. And for those who said no thought or work went into the north stand these images really illustrate the point. The second is a screen grab from the video.

Video Link

TD Place Pomerleau from Beacon Media Group Plus September 12/2014
An overview of Ottawa's new stadium, the TD Place produced for Pomerleau Inc.

[Nicko999]

Originally Posted by elly63

For once we agree on something, except your last paragraph, I believe the OP is a young guy and instead of TFC he is an Impact supporter, am I right Nicko?

A pissed Impact supporter but yes, you are right.

Originally Posted by king10

Seriously? The whole world is downsizing. This isnt a canada phenomenon. Italy the united states etc.

And larger stadiums isnt why the cfl cant compete with the nfl. Its the tv revenue that set the two apart.

Lower capacity and more luxury seating is the way to go. You can create ticket scarcity and increase ticket prices. The ticats are profitable at 24,000 thf but werent at 30,000 seat ivor wynne.

And ya compare our stadiums to g8 countries. How about we compare our population, healthcare, social services and quality of life to them as well. Thats where our money goes and rightfully so. Not stadiums.

After a couple of years with attendance decline because of the recession, the NFL has seen its attendance increase ever since 2010.

The MLS will most likely see its avg attendance above 20,000 for the first time ever this season.

I doubt Jerry Jones was aware of that trend when he build the AT&T Stadium.

Seriously, the whole downsizing thing is overblown. The new NFL stadiums are about the same size as the old ones they are replacing (save for a few exceptions like AT&T).
FC Barcelona (the most valuable sports team on Earth) is increasing the capacity of their stadium to 105,000.
Real Madrid (second most valuable team on Earth) recently expanded their stadium to 81,044.
Manchester United (most valuabe sports team in the UK) is also planning to increase capacity from 75k to 95k.

The seating arrangement are different nowadays that's true but downsizing is not a viable business strategy.

[oiler-dude]

First bits of upper glass have surfaced in Edmonton! Photo found on C2E forum.


Rogers Place by Chris Vazquez, on Flickr

[king10]

Originally Posted by Nicko999

A pissed Impact supporter but yes, you are right.



After a couple of years with attendance decline because of the recession, the NFL has seen its attendance increase ever since 2010.

The MLS will most likely see its avg attendance above 20,000 for the first time ever this season.

I doubt Jerry Jones was aware of that trend when he build the AT&T Stadium.

Seriously, the whole downsizing thing is overblown. The new NFL stadiums are about the same size as the old ones they are replacing (save for a few exceptions like AT&T).
FC Barcelona (the most valuable sports team on Earth) is increasing the capacity of their stadium to 105,000.
Real Madrid (second most valuable team on Earth) recently expanded their stadium to 81,044.
Manchester United (most valuabe sports team in the UK) is also planning to increase capacity from 75k to 95k.

The seating arrangement are different nowadays that's true but downsizing is not a viable business strategy.

In North America and especially in the CFL/ MLB, yes it is. Just ask the ticats, Als, and Redblacks. Who downsized and turned a profit. It is a VERY viable business alternative as 25 000 tickets at 150$ a pop brings in more money than 30 000 tickets at 75$ a pop. Not to mention increased luxury seating.

Ask the marlins, pirates, Yankees, mets, blue jays, tampa, twins, A's, braves, padres, giants, reds, tigers, indians etc etc. all downsized.

Europe is not North America. The type of ppl who go to games are not the same. Luxury seating is not the same in Europe. Much higher standards in North America. If you want to do a comparison, comepare directly in North America. Europe is a different beast.

Bills have downsized their stadium, Browns have downsized, Miami, downsized, Jacksonville downsized, bears downsized, phoenix downsized, redskins downsized, lions downsized, raiders downsized, falcons downsizing.

You said San Fran downsizing was the outlier but Dallas upsizing was the norm. Yet I just listed above half the league has downsized since 2000.

Creating higher demand while increasing luxury seating and ticket prices is very viable.


The NFL average attendance is always going to be around the same.

And the reason why MLS is going to see average attendance above 20 000 is because the move to downsized soccer specific stadiums increasing the atmosphere and making the league seem big league and not playing in 80% empty nfl size stadiums.

[Oilkountry]

Well they werent holding any punches back with the scoreboard concept at mtsc. 4 identical sized screens slightly curved, open concept with 2 power rings
this is from twiiter but their is a way better pic on IG they aslo posted a video of the construction so far on twitter

[drew]

^ what's "IG"?

[HomerSPC]

Originally Posted by drew

^ what's "IG"?

I'd assume Instagram.

[esquire]

..