Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2 - Page 104

matt602 · #**2061** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 12:26 AM**

THF actually looks like a pretty decent soccer pitch from above. Cool photos.

elly63 · #**2062** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 6:30 AM**

Nothing new in this post but it does bear repeating
K_O_cowtown Stampsfans.com June 17, 2015

This was from the Flames Season ticket holders get-together:

Building

- They were ready for an announcement right after the election but result has set that back temporarily. New government doesn't change much, just have to take the time to make sure they understand the scope of the project. Announcement coming soon

- Season ticket holders invited to the 'Dome to see it first. Spent a couple minutes saying he knows he's been saying that for five plus years and completely understands the frustration it has caused and accepts many wont believe him this time. Reiterated it will be the most ambitious project in Calgary in 50 plus years and everyone will love it, and it will be worth the wait.

- Expect the team to move into the new arena three years after the first shovel hits the ground

- The teams and fans deserve an arena with better access in and out, better sight lines, better seats, and better amenities. This will have it and more.

- Ken said fans of watching football will be much more comfortable doing so, and fans of amateur city sports will love the project as well

- A fan quoted King on the football comfort, directly asking if that means a dome or stadium with retractable roof. King said he couldn't answer at this time, but that the gentlemen is smart enough to figure out what he meant with his comfortable comments

- Arena will be about the same total capacity, but with two bowls

- Lower bowl will be much larger, and there will be more luxury suites

- A gentleman said he sits in level 3, row 1, and asked if there would be similar seats - King said sorry, we know you have the best-value seats in the league, but don't expect the new arena to have those in terms of view

- King followed up saying they do plan, in both the arena and football stadium, to keep price points close when the transition happens. Not just about money - they aren't greedy - but also about keeping the loyal fans.

- Football stadium will have a capacity between 30 and 35 thousand, expandable to 50 thousand for Grey Cup and similar events

elly63 · #**2063** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 6:42 AM**

CFL commish plays coy on new stadium in Calgary
Scott Mitchell, Calgary Sun June 26, 2015

Everyone seems to know a new stadium for the Calgary Stampeders to do their work in is on the way.

But only a few are privy to the details of the Calgary Flames Limited Partnership endeavour that is rumoured to be a multi-plex project that will include a new arena, a football stadium, as well as other amenities in a full-blown entertainment area.

In Calgary for the Stampeders’ season opener against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats on Friday, new CFL commissioner Jeffrey Orridge, who took over from Mark Cohon earlier this year, said he has knowledge of the conversations.

“It’s very complex and there are a lot of conversations that have to happen with the municipalities, business leaders, the community in general has to get together,” Orridge said. “Many, many layers and it can take some time, but one step at a time and it’s all part of a process.

“I’ve only been in the job six weeks, but there has been conversation about that. Certainly, there’s always an impetus to grow the game and to create the best fan experience. Sure, by doing new things and new stadiums — renovating existing stadiums or building new ones — it just helps to grow the brand and build the league.”

Orridge held court with the media outside McMahon Stadium on a beautifully sunny night for a season opener, and he doesn’t see a major need for a new building.

“It’s still a great facility because there are social zones here and, I think, that’s the key, that there are places where people can congregate and get together and it’s a real party atmosphere,” Orridge said.

But the new league boss was outside on an energy-charged night with a whole lot of hustling and bustling. The issues with McMahon Stadium are its 55-year-old guts.

As the league tries to attract a younger demographic, Orridge believes the atmosphere inside stadiums is key.

“Wider concourses, social zones where people can congregate — whether it’s at the endzone or another parts of the stadium — but the whole idea is a fun, exciting, party experience that everybody can enjoy,” Orridge said.

“It’s really creating a social experience.”

Oilkountry · #**2064** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 11:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

Nothing new in this post but it does bear repeating
K_O_cowtown Stampsfans.com June 17, 2015

This was from the Flames Season ticket holders get-together:

Building

- They were ready for an announcement right after the election but result has set that back temporarily. New government doesn't change much, just have to take the time to make sure they understand the scope of the project. Announcement coming soon

- Season ticket holders invited to the 'Dome to see it first. Spent a couple minutes saying he knows he's been saying that for five plus years and completely understands the frustration it has caused and accepts many wont believe him this time. Reiterated it will be the most ambitious project in Calgary in 50 plus years and everyone will love it, and it will be worth the wait.

- Expect the team to move into the new arena three years after the first shovel hits the ground

- The teams and fans deserve an arena with better access in and out, better sight lines, better seats, and better amenities. This will have it and more.

- Ken said fans of watching football will be much more comfortable doing so, and fans of amateur city sports will love the project as well

- A fan quoted King on the football comfort, directly asking if that means a dome or stadium with retractable roof. King said he couldn't answer at this time, but that the gentlemen is smart enough to figure out what he meant with his comfortable comments

- Arena will be about the same total capacity, but with two bowls

- Lower bowl will be much larger, and there will be more luxury suites

- A gentleman said he sits in level 3, row 1, and asked if there would be similar seats - King said sorry, we know you have the best-value seats in the league, but don't expect the new arena to have those in terms of view

- King followed up saying they do plan, in both the arena and football stadium, to keep price points close when the transition happens. Not just about money - they aren't greedy - but also about keeping the loyal fans.

- Football stadium will have a capacity between 30 and 35 thousand, expandable to 50 thousand for Grey Cup and similar events

Wow this just frustrates me more than ever.

No plans,concept,timelines,Location or funding model. The thing's people wanna see. We knew their was a CFL Stadium planned in this. We knew their was gonna be an arena with it, we know it takes approximately 3 years to built a god damn arena. We obviously know new arenas have better sight lines and more suites. What in gods name did we learn today?

Yet another installment of ken king dangling this over the cities head like a child. And announcement coming soon? Announcement of what? Are they going ahead with the project or are they just announcing the beginning of a decade long dispute with the city about who's funding what?

3 years after shovels hit the ground. hmm So the flames will be playing in a new arena in 202*? or most likely 203*? What a joke

elly63 · #**2065** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 2:13 PM**

Well, I think we already know the location and the tax payer part of the funding unless there's a big surprise, most of which is speculated in this thread. Highly doubtful it will take until 2030 to be completed. Winnipeg with all its David Asper twists and turns took eight years.

osmo · #**2066** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 3:10 PM**

How long will Ken King play this game until he hopes the public will pay for most if not all of this project?

The Fisher Account · #**2067** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 3:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

How long will Ken King play this game until he hopes the public will pay for most if not all of this project?

Here's to 5 more years!

Next diversion tactic - blame the delay on the federal election. When the Cons lose, he'll come back and say.. well we were expecting a different result. Guess this is gonna take some more time.

elly63 · #**2068** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 6:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

How long will Ken King play this game until he hopes the public will pay for most if not all of this project?

Calvin, where did you come up with that? Most leads point to them wanting the land. Even you must know they won't get any federal money.

elly63 · #**2069** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 6:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Next diversion tactic - blame the delay on the federal election. When the Cons lose, he'll come back and say.. well we were expecting a different result. Guess this is gonna take some more time.

What I took from it wasn't the party change in the Alberta government but that it was a new government. Apparently they have now been briefed and if the rumour that I posted above is true there should be no reason to not come public in the near future.

Why are some people here so predisposed to negativity, especially when it adds ZERO and is usually wrong. Nice new stadiums in Hamilton, Winnipeg, Regina, and great refurbs in BC and Ottawa, why should Calgary be any different in finding a way to get it done.

JHikka · #**2070** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 6:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by prat

Beautiful stadiums.

mattgrande · #**2071** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 6:35 PM**

I wish they had made the playing field longer at THF. It looks so weird with so much empty space behind the nets.

elly63 · #**2072** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 6:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattgrande

I wish they had made the playing field longer at THF. It looks so weird with so much empty space behind the nets.

Not sure what you're talking about (a regulation soccer field is a regulation soccer field) but that photo does give us a good impression about what they'll have to do at BMO with the football conversion. You can see the faint lines of the CFL field behind the soccer pitch.

mattgrande · #**2073** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 6:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

Not sure what you're talking about (a regulation soccer field is a regulation soccer field) but that photo does give us a good impression about what they'll have to do at BMO with the football conversion. You can see the faint lines of the CFL field behind the soccer pitch.

Not really... Although there's "more standard" sizes, soccer fields can be between 90 and 130 metres in length, and between 45 and 90m wide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_pitch

esquire · #**2074** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 6:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

Building

- They were ready for an announcement right after the election but result has set that back temporarily. New government doesn't change much, just have to take the time to make sure they understand the scope of the project. Announcement coming soon

- Season ticket holders invited to the 'Dome to see it first. Spent a couple minutes saying he knows he's been saying that for five plus years and completely understands the frustration it has caused and accepts many wont believe him this time. Reiterated it will be the most ambitious project in Calgary in 50 plus years and everyone will love it, and it will be worth the wait.

- Expect the team to move into the new arena three years after the first shovel hits the ground

- The teams and fans deserve an arena with better access in and out, better sight lines, better seats, and better amenities. This will have it and more.

- Ken said fans of watching football will be much more comfortable doing so, and fans of amateur city sports will love the project as well

- A fan quoted King on the football comfort, directly asking if that means a dome or stadium with retractable roof. King said he couldn't answer at this time, but that the gentlemen is smart enough to figure out what he meant with his comfortable comments

- Arena will be about the same total capacity, but with two bowls

- Lower bowl will be much larger, and there will be more luxury suites

- A gentleman said he sits in level 3, row 1, and asked if there would be similar seats - King said sorry, we know you have the best-value seats in the league, but don't expect the new arena to have those in terms of view

- King followed up saying they do plan, in both the arena and football stadium, to keep price points close when the transition happens. Not just about money - they aren't greedy - but also about keeping the loyal fans.

- Football stadium will have a capacity between 30 and 35 thousand, expandable to 50 thousand for Grey Cup and similar events

So it sounds like the stadium will be more or less cut from the same cloth as the ones in Winnipeg and Regina... a little over 30,000 in seating capacity with expansion capability for the Grey Cup and other major events, along with extensive canopy coverage over the seating area but not a roof, which would drive up the cost substantially. I'm frankly a little surprised that Calgary isn't aiming a little higher in terms of seat total given that you would think there would be some use for them for concerts and special sports events given that city's size, not to mention regular season Stampeders games as the city grows. 33,000 seems small for the Calgary of today, let alone 20 years out when Calgary may well be pushing 2,000,000.

As for the new arena, it's kind of hilarious but basically they're talking about undoing all of the renovations carried out to the Saddledome over the years and basically going with the Saddledome circa 1983, except with more luxury suites. Think about it... complaining about the small lower bowl? It used to be double the size until they shrank it in the 90s. No more 3rd level? They added that back in the late 80s. Maybe they should have just left the Saddledome the way it was when it was first built and they wouldn't have needed a new rink

elly63 · #**2075** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 7:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattgrande

Not really... Although there's "more standard" sizes, soccer fields can be between 90 and 130 metres in length, and between 45 and 90m wide.

I realize that, I wasn't sure if you did.

These are the specific FIFA dimensions for the recent WWC, note though that the stadium THF did not host any WWC games but a pre tournament friendly so the below dimensions may or may not have applied there

Section 15

1.The fields of play, accessory equipment and all facilities for each match of the final competition shall be in optimum condition and comply with the Laws of the Game and all other relevant regulations. The pitch shall have the following dimensions: length 105m, width 68m. The total surface area shall have the following dimensions at a minimum: length 125m, width 80m, in order to provide sufficient space for warm-up and pitch-side photographer positions.

elly63 · #**2076** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 7:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

along with extensive canopy coverage over the seating area but not a roof, which would drive up the cost substantially. I'm frankly a little surprised that Calgary isn't aiming a little higher in terms of seat total given that you would think there would be some use for them for concerts and special sports events given that city's size, not to mention regular season Stampeders games as the city grows. 33,000 seems small for the Calgary of today, let alone 20 years out when Calgary may well be pushing 2,000,000.

I'm not sure where you are able to infer what kind of covering the stadium will have, RR (retractable roof), dome or canopy seeing as we don't know of the budget. I'm assuming it is more substantial because we keep hearing of a "transformational project" the likes we haven't seen for 50 years but that is only conjecture on my part with no proof.

Also, the capacity is very right sized for the crowds the Stamps have been attracting in the new millenium. More amenities, premium seats and social gathering areas to attract younger fans away from HD TV at home is the way new stadiums are trending. Also have to introduce the concept of seat scarcity to the fans to encourage season ticket sales.

So if we consider 33k as capacity (like Regina and Winnipeg) it would have only been achieved three times in the past 15 years leaving empty seats for 12 of those years thus not creating ticket scarcity and demand.

The Fisher Account · #**2077** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 7:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

As for the new arena, it's kind of hilarious but basically they're talking about undoing all of the renovations carried out to the Saddledome over the years and basically going with the Saddledome circa 1983, except with more luxury suites.

Yeah, that's exactly what they're going to do. 'Basically' build a Saddledome circa 1983.

Maybe they just understand the economics of arena design in 2015 and know that maximizing revenue from 2 bowls is far more effective than 3? Your post is ridiculous.

mattgrande · #**2078** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 7:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

I realize that, I wasn't sure if you did.

These are the specific FIFA dimensions for the recent WWC, note though that the stadium THF did not host any WWC games but a pre tournament friendly so the below dimensions may or may not have applied there

Section 15

1.The fields of play, accessory equipment and all facilities for each match of the final competition shall be in optimum condition and comply with the Laws of the Game and all other relevant regulations. The pitch shall have the following dimensions: length 105m, width 68m. The total surface area shall have the following dimensions at a minimum: length 125m, width 80m, in order to provide sufficient space for warm-up and pitch-side photographer positions.

I think the lines are currently drawn for the Pan-Ams which, I'd imagine, would have different specification.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure 105m is the de facto standard for international matches, my comment was more of a "what if" or "wouldn't it be nice."

elly63 · #**2079** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 7:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattgrande

I think the lines are currently drawn for the Pan-Ams which, I'd imagine, would have different specification.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure 105m is the de facto standard for international matches, my comment was more of a "what if" or "wouldn't it be nice."

Well considering the PanAms are under the FIFA auspices I would assume they would be the standard dimensions unless THF has some very different dimensions to other stadiums which I don't think it does.

esquire · #**2080** Posted **Jul 5, 2015, 8:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

I'm not sure where you are able to infer what kind of covering the stadium will have, RR (retractable roof), dome or canopy seeing as we don't know of the budget. I'm assuming it is more substantial because we keep hearing of a "transformational project" the likes we haven't seen for 50 years but that is only conjecture on my part with no proof.

Also, the capacity is very right sized for the crowds the Stamps have been attracting in the new millenium. More amenities, premium seats and social gathering areas to attract younger fans away from HD TV at home is the way new stadiums are trending. Also have to introduce the concept of seat scarcity to the fans to encourage season ticket sales.

So if we consider 33k as capacity (like Regina and Winnipeg) it would have only been achieved three times in the past 15 years leaving empty seats for 12 of those years thus not creating ticket scarcity and demand.

The difference is that Regina and Winnipeg have increased capacity over the previous buildings (roughly 27,000 and 29,500 respectively, not including temporary seating), while Calgary is going in the other direction, shrinking their stadium's seating capacity. Calgary has also grown much faster than Regina and Winnipeg, which would make you think they'd want a bit more room.

As for the canopy, I'm inferring that from King's comments which seem to be emphasizing "comfort" while making no reference to a weather-protected facility. I think it's almost certain that if Calgary Sports and Entertainment was planning for a dome, they'd be explicitly making the case for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Yeah, that's exactly what they're going to do. 'Basically' build a Saddledome circa 1983.

Maybe they just understand the economics of arena design in 2015 and know that maximizing revenue from 2 bowls is far more effective than 3? Your post is ridiculous.

Like it or not, what King described is basically the seating layout of the pre-renovation Saddledome. Obviously with more skyboxes and lounges and whatnot, but notice the things he singled out for criticism: the small lower bowl and the 300 level. Both things that were added after the fact. Guess they should've left the original configuration alone