ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[Verge]

Originally Posted by NewUrbanist90

What's awesome is developing a city with a variety of architecture, yes, but also a city that looks to the future of an area instead of just what exists there currently. A city that sees potential. A city that acknowledges that what we build now is going to be around for the next few decades, at the very least. We can't continue to tear down and rebuild, we need to focus on building things that last and will continue to attract people to the city.

I am not impressed by this proposal because it plays to an outdated formula of development and because architecturally it's so severe that the chances of it aging gracefully are nil.

That's the big picture, as I see it.

This kind of deep rooted architectural conservatism doesn't serve a city like Atlanta well-- Some of the most revered buildings in history were considered to be overly trendy or just odd when they were built-- the Chrysler Building comes to mind. As for this particular building-- its style is a party that Atlanta is a bit late to. Time will tell about its, well-- timelessness. Even that concept of course, is relative-- Victorian architecture was hated in the 1960s as much as it is beloved today. Mid-century modernism is enjoying a renaissance-- the Equitable Building is cool, etc.-- Time and style are fluid and cities (the best ones) are diverse and dynamic.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

MGM is proposing a $1B Casino complex for downtown Atlanta
http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2015/07/01/mgms-pitch-for-a-1b-casino-in-metro-atlanta/

[RudyJK]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

MGM is proposing a $1B Casino complex for downtown Atlanta
http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2015/07/01/mgms-pitch-for-a-1b-casino-in-metro-atlanta/

Kill it with fire. Casinos suck the soul right out of a city.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

There is heavy equipment now on the Post Midtown Millennium site so that is ramping up now

[Nanosolar]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

MGM is proposing a $1B Casino complex for downtown Atlanta
http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2015/07/01/mgms-pitch-for-a-1b-casino-in-metro-atlanta/

Please no.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arch...ck-a-local-economy-build-casinos/375691/

[ATLSkyPalaceOwner]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

MGM is proposing a $1B Casino complex for downtown Atlanta
http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2015/07/01/mgms-pitch-for-a-1b-casino-in-metro-atlanta/

Awesome! I'd love to be able to go to a casino periodically without having to drive to Cherokee for a mediocre crowded casino, or all the way out to Tunica / Biloxi for better gambling.

[sunking1056]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

MGM is proposing a $1B Casino complex for downtown Atlanta
http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2015/07/01/mgms-pitch-for-a-1b-casino-in-metro-atlanta/

No no no nooooo. Please no. Especially not downtown.

[joecool]

Are casinos really that bad for a city? If it happens I just hot it doesn't look like the ones in New Orleans or DEFFINATELY not like the ones in Vegas...

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by joecool

Are casinos really that bad for a city?

Only if they're poorly run.

[Pemgin]

Originally Posted by joecool

Are casinos really that bad for a city?

Just look at the cities that have them. By and large they're places without much going for them. For what it's worth, Detroit has an MGM Grand. I don't see this contributing to downtown's rise as a liveable neighborhood.

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by Nanosolar

Please no.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arch...ck-a-local-economy-build-casinos/375691/

This article doesn't do a great job proving its premise: that casinos are bad for local economies. It brings up some problems with casinos, and some examples of failed casinos, but it doesn't really prove the macro-economy of Atlanta will be worse off with one.

Originally Posted by Pemgin

Just look at the cities that have them. By and large they're places without much going for them. For what it's worth, Detroit has an MGM Grand. I don't see this contributing to downtown's rise as a liveable neighborhood.

Detroit has a casino; so do Los Angeles and New Orleans.

In my opinion, to make this valuable, you have to made sure that it drives tourism to the city. In other words, you have to generate a real Las Vegas type of experience that will serve as a substitute for trip to Las Vegas, or at least Biloxi or whatever the nearest Alabama/NC casinos is. Right now, Atlanta bleeds gaming tourists to these places; if implemented properly, Atlanta could offer a better alternative and siphon tourists off who would otherwise go to these places.

If it's just going to be some silly slot machine den, or not serve booze, or something else ridiculous like that, then it will cater almost exclusively to gambling junkies and will contribute very little to destination tourism. I would be opposed to that sort of casino.

If you're gonna do it, do it right. Have the explicit aim of capturing a tourist market from across the south that would normally head to Biloxi or Vegas.

And no, casinos don't do a great job benefiting the surrounding neighborhoods because they're designed to be as insular as possible. But the economic benefits to the region as a whole might trump this imo; also, it should definitely be required to interact with downtown as well as possible.

[mayhem]

A casino would have a significant boost on our convention business. As long as the tower is well designed, I'm game.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

Just look at the cities that have them. By and large they're places without much going for them. For what it's worth, Detroit has an MGM Grand. I don't see this contributing to downtown's rise as a liveable neighborhood.

Chicago is also working on getting one downtown... do you think Chicago has nothing else going for it?

This is uncharted territoty. Casinos were completely prohibited just a few decades ago. Historically this is a Puritan society and gambling has a bad rap. People have been intolerant of it except in areas that desperately needed the boost, hence most existing casinos are in shitty neighborhoods. As people become more tolerant and the stigma goes away you'll start seeing nicer ones in nicer areas. Dismissing them outright makes about as much sense as saying "no" to all retail because Walmart is terrible. Casinos can be good if they're run well. They can also be terrible, but that's true for anything... i.e. not every mall is like Underground.

Probably a moot point though. I doubt it would be approved any time soon.

[Ant131531]

Casinos are so overrated.

[SuperNice]

I own a condo in the Castleberry Hill / West End area and I support the MGM proposal 110 percent. Those of us who have made long term investments south of Midtown are starving for many things, including, but not limited to retail, entertainment options, desirable housing options, quality urban life and notably other investments beyond stadiums.

As with previous development cycles, it appears this development cycle will likely pass with Midtown and Buckhead being the real winners and the downtown neighboring communities remaining still in time. We have and continue to bare the brunt of the Braves and Falcon before and after game impacts and have gotten essentially NOTHING in return for taking "one for the team". Bad roads, lack of sidewalks, no grocery stores, no lights on I-20, trash littered streets, etc.

To date there have been just a FEW local and literally no national developers looking to make investments in the area. MGM has name recognition and typically delivers a quality product. So in my mind, if the proposed development is built appropriately it may likely be the 'much needed kick start" for a now dormant downtown after 6 pm. Have any of you driven by Trinity, South Northside drive or even Underground Atlanta after 6 pm. It is symbolic of Atlanta today, a City of divided investment, with pretty much every investment dollar outside the Falcons stadium going to its northmost communities from Midtown and above.

So for you naysayers who talk it terms of the Casinos impact on the City as a whole, the City and our northern neighbors have shown little regard to date about the a neighborhoods situated on its southern tip. Although I hate to use the word hope, because it has been used far too long to pacify black middle class communities, while delivering little or nothing at all. So as for hope for better days, my HOA and I believe the Underground redevelopment, the Turner Fied redevelopment, the Fort Mac ( thank you Tyler Perry), and the MGM proposal each represent hope if nothing else. If built they will likely will bring, jobs, housing, retail, and fill the sea of asphalt that presently surrounds us. We live it everyday - not to mention that most of our of the homes and condos South of the Midtown dividing line are presently under water.

So before you say "Kill It" or "No".... your southern most neighbors are saying at last someone expressed an interest in our community that is loooooooong overdue. Someone is actually interested to see that the City's stepchild grows up to be something good also. I have lived here for over 25 years and in my beloved Atlanta if it's not Midtown (more recently) or Buckhead it's essentially 's***".

[cokezero]

Originally Posted by SuperNice

I own a condo in the Castleberry Hill / West End area and I support the MGM proposal 110 percent.

We have and continue to bare the brunt of the Braves and Falcon before and after game impacts and have gotten essentially NOTHING in return for taking "one for the team".

Who was there first - you and your Castleberry Hill condo or the Braves and Falcons? Unless you moved to Castleberry Hill in the 60s, I believe I know the answer to the question. You took nothing for the team. You came long after the stadiums were built knowing they were there and then decided to complain that they were there. If you didn't previously research the area in which you invested before making the investment, that's solely on you.

You can't be a NIMBYist when the thing you're NIMBYing against is already in your backyard.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by cokezero

You can't be a NIMBYist when the thing you're NIMBYing against is already in your backyard.

Sure you can. There is no rule saying you can't move next door to something and hope it gets redeveloped into something better. Off course it doesn't mean it will happen. Nor is there anything guaranteeing that big untouched green space you moved next door to in the suburbs won't get redeveloped.

As for the casino, it is a bad idea. I am planning on moving downtown and that would be a reason not to. They are rarely good for the city (from user "kid_miracleman" on r/atlanta):

MO Fed Does a Review of the Economic Impact of Casinos (tl,dr: don't trust everything a billionaire tells you when he comes asking for your money)
https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/...conomic-development-a-look-at-the-issues

Hate Fort Madea? The Cobb Country Braves Stadium? The new Falcons Stadium? If I was a betting man (ha!), I wouldn't give the most corrupt government in the country an opportunity to sweetheart deal again.
http://www.stateintegrity.org/georgia

CNN opinion piece of Vegas' Economy and the reality of building an economy around the most recession-prone dollar you can spend: being an entertainment travel destination
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/01/opinion/frum-las-vegas-economy/

Pretty much every single thing you read about the positive impact of a casino to the local economy is bullshit. If you have to read only 1 article, read this one.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arch...ck-a-local-economy-build-casinos/375691/

[scania]

Originally Posted by SuperNice

I own a condo in the Castleberry Hill / West End area and I support the MGM proposal 110 percent. Those of us who have made long term investments south of Midtown are starving for many things, including, but not limited to retail, entertainment options, desirable housing options, quality urban life and notably other investments beyond stadiums.

As with previous development cycles, it appears this development cycle will likely pass with Midtown and Buckhead being the real winners and the downtown neighboring communities remaining still in time. We have and continue to bare the brunt of the Braves and Falcon before and after game impacts and have gotten essentially NOTHING in return for taking "one for the team". Bad roads, lack of sidewalks, no grocery stores, no lights on I-20, trash littered streets, etc.

To date there have been just a FEW local and literally no national developers looking to make investments in the area. MGM has name recognition and typically delivers a quality product. So in my mind, if the proposed development is built appropriately it may likely be the 'much needed kick start" for a now dormant downtown after 6 pm. Have any of you driven by Trinity, South Northside drive or even Underground Atlanta after 6 pm. It is symbolic of Atlanta today, a City of divided investment, with pretty much every investment dollar outside the Falcons stadium going to its northmost communities from Midtown and above.

So for you naysayers who talk it terms of the Casinos impact on the City as a whole, the City and our northern neighbors have shown little regard to date about the a neighborhoods situated on its southern tip. Although I hate to use the word hope, because it has been used far too long to pacify black middle class communities, while delivering little or nothing at all. So as for hope for better days, my HOA and I believe the Underground redevelopment, the Turner Fied redevelopment, the Fort Mac ( thank you Tyler Perry), and the MGM proposal each represent hope if nothing else. If built they will likely will bring, jobs, housing, retail, and fill the sea of asphalt that presently surrounds us. We live it everyday - not to mention that most of our of the homes and condos South of the Midtown dividing line are presently under water.

So before you say "Kill It" or "No".... your southern most neighbors are saying at last someone expressed an interest in our community that is loooooooong overdue. Someone is actually interested to see that the City's stepchild grows up to be something good also. I have lived here for over 25 years and in my beloved Atlanta if it's not Midtown (more recently) or Buckhead it's essentially 's***".

I think you make a lot of valid points. I personally hope that if it is built, Atlanta will take a more progressive stance and let it be a full/real casino. I get so annoyed that sometimes people in the south take so much pride in being late/behind the rest of the country, blaming it on we are apart of The Bible Belt attitude.

[A-town]

I think the conversation about Atlanta getting a casino is an interesting one. Me personally, I don't want to see a casino in Atlanta. But when thinking about our convention numbers, this could be a real money maker. But I think in order for this to work new laws will have to be made. In Vegas the casinos are open 24 hour a day. We tried letting clubs stay open past 3am but it didn't work. Residents started complaining about the traffic and violence that was going on in Buckhead and Midtown. So laws where put in place preventing clubs from doing business past 3am. This put a lot of nightclubs out of business. So this is much bigger than just building a casino. It's something that will change the entire Atlanta nightlife scene. If they allow MGM to operate past 3am they're going to have to allow it for all the other nightclubs throughout the city.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by SuperNice

I own a condo in the Castleberry Hill / West End area and I support the MGM proposal 110 percent. Those of us who have made long term investments south of Midtown are starving for many things, including, but not limited to retail, entertainment options, desirable housing options, quality urban life and notably other investments beyond stadiums.

As with previous development cycles, it appears this development cycle will likely pass with Midtown and Buckhead being the real winners and the downtown neighboring communities remaining still in time. We have and continue to bare the brunt of the Braves and Falcon before and after game impacts and have gotten essentially NOTHING in return for taking "one for the team". Bad roads, lack of sidewalks, no grocery stores, no lights on I-20, trash littered streets, etc.

To date there have been just a FEW local and literally no national developers looking to make investments in the area. MGM has name recognition and typically delivers a quality product. So in my mind, if the proposed development is built appropriately it may likely be the 'much needed kick start" for a now dormant downtown after 6 pm. Have any of you driven by Trinity, South Northside drive or even Underground Atlanta after 6 pm. It is symbolic of Atlanta today, a City of divided investment, with pretty much every investment dollar outside the Falcons stadium going to its northmost communities from Midtown and above.

So for you naysayers who talk it terms of the Casinos impact on the City as a whole, the City and our northern neighbors have shown little regard to date about the a neighborhoods situated on its southern tip. Although I hate to use the word hope, because it has been used far too long to pacify black middle class communities, while delivering little or nothing at all. So as for hope for better days, my HOA and I believe the Underground redevelopment, the Turner Fied redevelopment, the Fort Mac ( thank you Tyler Perry), and the MGM proposal each represent hope if nothing else. If built they will likely will bring, jobs, housing, retail, and fill the sea of asphalt that presently surrounds us. We live it everyday - not to mention that most of our of the homes and condos South of the Midtown dividing line are presently under water.

So before you say "Kill It" or "No".... your southern most neighbors are saying at last someone expressed an interest in our community that is loooooooong overdue. Someone is actually interested to see that the City's stepchild grows up to be something good also. I have lived here for over 25 years and in my beloved Atlanta if it's not Midtown (more recently) or Buckhead it's essentially 's***".

I would first point out the number of developments happening currently in the downtown area...calling downtown "still in time" is not accurate at all. And bringing up two dead areas of downtown (all downtowns have dead areas) doesn't further your agenda at all when there are lively areas of downtown that you fail to mention. I understand that you're envious of the booming growth experienced by Midtown and Buckhead, but your characterization of downtown is a bit off. It's not nearly as bad as the picture you paint.

I'm not sure how I feel about a casino. It could bring more tourists and further development if done right, but if not it could be a nightmare. I would want to be assured it's done properly so we don't regret it, but I seriously doubt it will ever happen so there is no need to keep talking about it really.