Metro Vancouver Transportation & Transit Plebiscite - Page 82

rxp · #**1621** Posted **Jun 30, 2015, 10:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon

In the case of a no vote I wonder what The Mayor's council will do next They & the government must have a plan B.

I think it also depends on how close it is... if its very close, that will make things more "grey". I can see both sides making their cases already. if it is 49/51, does that affect the outcome (either way)?

Waders · #**1622** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 1:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klazu

That and the fact that voting "No" will just mean keeping the status quo whereas voting "Yes" means improving what we have. .

There is no status quo.
If the "No" side wins, there is a high probability more severe service cut would be required.
Even if the "Yes" side wins, there might still be some service cut.

queetz@home · #**1623** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 2:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

I'm predicting a 55% NO and 45% YES. Won't be a blowout, but pretty sure it will be a "NO" vote.

I'm the opposite. It would be 55% YES and 45% NO. The reason is simply because the YES was able to mobilize their voting block.

NO voters who don't take transit are typically lazy anyway, so I doubt they would have the energy to take some time out of their way and go to a voting booth or mailbox. As far as "anger" is concerned, this is Canada. Politicians, corporations, and other powers to be can abuse their positions as much as they want, and people will whine and complain within their water coolers, forums, and dinner tables.

But at the end of the day, they DON'T DO ANYTHING about it, despite the tools for change being right in front of them. Just look at the turnout of ANY Canadian election in the past generation. This one is no different, hence why I think the "No" will loose because the rationale of such a vote is anger more than anything.

Spork · #**1624** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 2:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Oh, and to help people come up with their numbers, I made a Plebiscite Predictor that takes the turnout numbers from the last data release (two days before the close of the mail-in period) and lets you pick the percentages by municipality, and it'll spit out which side wins based on your percentages.

Nice work. I came out to 52.1% 'No'. I assumed ignorance in outlying areas and the north shore and enthusiasm for the upcoming evergreen line in the tri-cities and positive reactions from Vancouver and Burnaby.

Sheba · #**1625** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 5:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spork

Nice work. I came out to 52.1% 'No'. I assumed ignorance in outlying areas and the north shore and enthusiasm for the upcoming evergreen line in the tri-cities and positive reactions from Vancouver and Burnaby.

I have family in Surrey who voted Yes - "any chance to improve transit out here"

SFUVancouver · #**1626** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 6:07 AM**

I have remained cautiously optimistic throughout, though I think it will be awfully close. I'm going to pick a number and say 52% for the Yes position.

Delirium · #**1627** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 2:09 PM**

does anyone know what the rules are for increasing this possible tax in the future? Meaning, say in 2 years time they want to increase it by another .5%. Can they just do it or will we have another plebiscite?
in any event, i voted NO. not interested in paying yet another tax for Translink - they already get:

17 cents per litre on gas tax
5 cents per litre share of the federal gas tax
BC Hydro levy
Property tax levy
21% parking tax

So this new tax would be #6 dedicated to Translink. that's a lot. i'm already paying my fair share and understand the benefits of transit but, there are limits.

aberdeen5698 · #**1628** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 3:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delirium

So this new tax would be #6 dedicated to Translink. that's a lot. i'm already paying my fair share and understand the benefits of transit but, there are limits.

Would you prefer that all these taxes are simply buried in your income and general sales taxes so that they're invisible? They've got to come from somewhere, you know.

What's your take on the several billions of dollars being spent on highway improvements?

s211 · #**1629** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 5:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spork

Nice work. I came out to 52.1% 'No'. I assumed ignorance in outlying areas and the north shore and enthusiasm for the upcoming evergreen line in the tri-cities and positive reactions from Vancouver and Burnaby.

Once again, BS tar-and-feathering like the above shows the yes side to be prejudiced and something to be pitied. Yes, it's prejudice. You have just painted an entire jurisdiction with your broad brush.

Do I need to repeat this again ?!?!??! Calling your opponents a bunch of asshats is never going to sway them.

Frankly, the NO side deserves to be knocked down a few pegs, given its pomposity.

nname · #**1630** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 5:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delirium

does anyone know what the rules are for increasing this possible tax in the future? Meaning, say in 2 years time they want to increase it by another .5%. Can they just do it or will we have another plebiscite?
in any event, i voted NO. not interested in paying yet another tax for Translink - they already get:

17 cents per litre on gas tax
5 cents per litre share of the federal gas tax
BC Hydro levy
Property tax levy
21% parking tax

So this new tax would be #6 dedicated to Translink. that's a lot. i'm already paying my fair share and understand the benefits of transit but, there are limits.

TransLink got many different types of tax but the amount for each type is not much compared to other agencies.

Seattle only got 2 types of tax I think, but the 1.8% sale tax for 2 agencies alone provided much more money than all of the TransLink taxes combined (1.1 billion currently, going up to almost 3 billions/year by 2040). Maybe they should abolish all the different taxes and create one huge one so people will get the perception of being taxed less

WarrenC12 · #**1631** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 6:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s211

Do I need to repeat this again ?!?!??! Calling your opponents a bunch of asshats is never going to sway them.

I'd like to know how calling Translink a bunch of overpaid idiots motivates them to improve?

a very long weekend · #**1632** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 6:09 PM**

isn't the fact of gregor's open discussion of a different way forward following a loss proof enough that this thing is going down? if he was talking about it a week ago, it probably means that it's not even close.

WarrenC12 · #**1633** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 6:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by a very long weekend

isn't the fact of gregor's open discussion of a different way forward following a loss proof enough that this thing is going down? if he was talking about it a week ago, it probably means that it's not even close.

I'd say they have roughly the same information we do, which doesn't look good for the YES side.

He also ran the last campaign on the Broadway Subway, and he's repeatedly stated that his #1 priority.

WarrenC12 · #**1634** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 6:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delirium

5 cents per litre share of the federal gas tax

Isn't this tax only for buying buses or something?

s211 · #**1635** Posted **Jul 1, 2015, 6:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'd like to know how calling Translink a bunch of overpaid idiots motivates them to improve?

I welcome you to take the higher road and resist the urge to race to the bottom.

"Yeah, well so are you" isn't exactly raising the level of discourse.

Meraki · #**1636** Posted **Jul 2, 2015, 7:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Isn't this tax only for buying buses or something?

Yeah, a bunch of the funding is for capital expenditures only. Politicians are more than happy to let you buy new buses and build new things, because they can stand at the ribbon cutting/photo op, or plaster Economic Action Plan ads on your station. If you ask for money to pay operators, increase service, or anything else that isn't as flashy, good luck.

WarrenC12 · #**1637** Posted **Jul 2, 2015, 3:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s211

I welcome you to take the higher road and resist the urge to race to the bottom.

"Yeah, well so are you" isn't exactly raising the level of discourse.

But that's your enjoy post history on this site... mudslinging and name calling.

I have yet to hear a reasonable argument as to why we shouldn't invest more in transportation, and yes, Translink itself. If you don't think PST is the right way, what other tax should be increased? Or what program funding should decrease to pay for it?

WarrenC12 · #**1638** Posted **Jul 2, 2015, 3:40 PM**

Decision coming in just over an hour....

theKB · #**1639** Posted **Jul 2, 2015, 4:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

But that's your enjoy post history on this site... mudslinging and name calling.

I have yet to hear a reasonable argument as to why we shouldn't invest more in transportation, and yes, Translink itself. If you don't think PST is the right way, what other tax should be increased? Or what program funding should decrease to pay for it?

The PST should be scrapped entirely. Lets face it the last time we took a reasonably good idea for taxation and it went to the polls it got thrown out. I really don't care about a half a percent, its negligible but if it were a VAT/HST style tax that we are talking about it would make better sense.

IF you send anything like this to the polls it will fail because the NO side has strong arguments whether factual or not that makes it hard to overcome by the yes side.

Remember the Vander Zalm arguments against the HST? Its the same thing happening with the Translink arguments focussing on things like executive pay or overall salaries which amount for less than 10% of total operating budget (i think less than five) but it's easy appealing to the lowest common denominator of "these guys make more money than you".

I fully expect the NO side to win, just not sure about the margin of victory.

phesto · #**1640** Posted **Jul 2, 2015, 4:49 PM**

Surprised the results on these things don't get leaked ahead of time...