O-Train Line 2 [Stage 1 | Bayview to Greenboro] | In Service

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It would take a billion to convert to full electric LRT and extend southeasterly to Barrhaven.

But you don't have to go that far to make improvements. Enhancing the current shortterm plan by extending the sidings south to allow Gladstone to be a double track station like Carleton, and grade separating the VIA crossing (which combined would add maybe $20M-$30M to the existing $100M budget) would do wonders.

The city may very well move up such an improvement package if this line continues to prove problematic.

Grade separating the VIA crossing may help a bit but double tracking at the 'future' Gladstone station will just prevent the situation from getting worse.

I have said it before, we cannot provide reliable service on this line without double tracking. And extending the single track route to Bowesville or the Airport or both is just going to make reliability worse. It is simply too many trains running too frequently on a single track line. The too many points of potential delay and any one of them will throw the schedule out of whack.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

So much for the predictability of train schedules. I drive by Greenboro Station at least once a day, sometimes more and I see no pattern to train arrivals and departures. Perhaps, they are following the 'best that they can do' schedule, which is what I observed way back in February. Will this ever get better?

I've taken the O-train a few times since it re-opened. Not sure how "improved" the service is, given the much longer times it now spends stationary at the termini or significantly slowed down at the passing sidings.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by JM1

When I arrive at a terminus station (Bayview) by bus and see that there is a train in the station, I don't know if I should run to catch it or just walk. It would be good if there was some indication of how long until departure (e.g. a countdown clock or a "Next Train Departs in XX minutes" sign. Most modern rapid transit systems (and indeed many big city bus systems) have such signs. It is inexplicable that OC Transpo doesn't -- especially in light of the low frequency of the Trillium line.

It's perfectly explicable: This is OC Transpo we are talking about.

They do not care about passenger convenience (other than when it comes to suburban express bus routes), and are open and notorious technophobes.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

With the bus, at least if its running late you can use your phone to check where exactly it is and how long it is before it gets there.*

* Assuming the system is up and running, that the data is accurate, and that the bus you're waiting for has its unit turned on.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

* Assuming the system is up and running, that the data is accurate, and that the bus you're waiting for has its unit turned on.

Which is the case 95% of the time.

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It would take a billion to convert to full electric LRT and extend southeasterly to Barrhaven.

But you don't have to go that far to make improvements. Enhancing the current shortterm plan by extending the sidings south to allow Gladstone to be a double track station like Carleton, and grade separating the VIA crossing (which combined would add maybe $20M-$30M to the existing $100M budget) would do wonders.

The city may very well move up such an improvement package if this line continues to prove problematic.

Yeah, I was talking with reference to the 100% fudning model used in the GTHA by the Wynne gov't; and given that the city likely will not do any major expansion except to the Confederation Line.

Yes, extension of sidings is necessary to increase reliability, but also trying to twin the tracks at the river and the canal should be deemed highly necessary. The extension to bowesville should also be fully twinned track to ensure that any future expansion in ridership is easily accomodated.

But, I highly doubt that the city would do this unless a pot of gold was laid at their feet; even then I am doubtful. Basically the Province or the Feds would have to say here is $X to use soley on the Trillium Line to improve reliability and service speeds to get anything done.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

But, I highly doubt that the city would do this unless a pot of gold was laid at their feet; even then I am doubtful. Basically the Province or the Feds would have to say here is $X to use soley on the Trillium Line to improve reliability and service speeds to get anything done.

The province doesn't get involved in transit planning in Ottawa beyond handing out cheques (as opposed to Toronto where they actively participate in, and in many cases control, transit planning), so there's not much hope for that.

The money could flow.. heck if the city pushed it (which sadly they aren't), we could probably easily get 100% for Phase 2, $3B full... but the resulting $980M of city savings would end up god knows where. Probably a Kanata extension.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It would take a billion to convert to full electric LRT and extend southeasterly to Barrhaven.

But you don't have to go that far to make improvements. Enhancing the current shortterm plan by extending the sidings south to allow Gladstone to be a double track station like Carleton, and grade separating the VIA crossing (which combined would add maybe $20M-$30M to the existing $100M budget) would do wonders.

The city may very well move up such an improvement package if this line continues to prove problematic.

I was at the last PCG meeting on the extension. The open house is coming up later this month.

In the latest version of the plan, Gladstone station is double tracked like Carleton. Walkley is not, because the underpass is too narrow to allow for 2 tracks.

Also, the length of all station platforms and passing tracks will be increased to allow for 2-car trainsets.

The city now anticipates running with 2-car trainsets from day 1 of expansion in 2023. This is because providing the capacity to meet the demand with 1-car trains would require 8 minute service frequency. A 10 minute service is now considered the highest frequency possible without extensive double-tracking.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I was at the last PCG meeting on the extension. The open house is coming up later this month.

In the latest version of the plan, Gladstone station is double tracked like Carleton. Walkley is not, because the underpass is too narrow to allow for 2 tracks.

Until the first open house, the one in which the weird split-service proposal was unveiled, the planners wanted both Gladstone and Walkley double tracked to replace the siding passes at Gladstone & Brookfield (in both cases, done by extending each siding south to meet the station).

Nice to hear they've revised back to 2 tracks at Gladstone at least. Shows they've realized how much better it will be for operations. The Gladstone siding is a mess because it's too short resulting in it delaying both trains (as opposed to Brookfield which is longer and adds less delay as a result).

It will also have the elegant result of not adding any additional travel time to the Bayview-Carleton even with the addition of Gladstone station, as the siding stop will be replaced with a station stop. Also far more psychologically satisfying to riders as the passing manoeuvre is hidden.

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Also, the length of all station platforms and passing tracks will be increased to allow for 2-car trainsets.

The city now anticipates running with 2-car trainsets from day 1 of expansion in 2023. This is because providing the capacity to meet the demand with 1-car trains would require 8 minute service frequency. A 10 minute service is now considered the highest frequency possible without extensive double-tracking.

Also shows they've learned their lessons from the current problems.

As for the Via crossing, Via Rail is planning on building fully dedicated tracks for its Ottawa-Toronto-Montreal triangle, completely separating/insulating their service from other rail traffic, with construction starting in 2017 and completing in 2021. That will include grade separating the O-Train crossing so that solves that problem.

[rocketphish]

OC Transpo Trillium Line down Saturday night

Tyler Dawson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 13, 2015, Last Updated: June 13, 2015 9:33 PM EDT

The O-Train Trillium Line is out of service Saturday evening due to an issue with track switches.

It has been replaced with Route 107 until the issue is resolved, OC Transpo said in a notice on its website.

The line has been down for switch issues a few times in recent months.

The opening of the expanded service on March 2 was itself held up by switch issues.

The next day, the train was held up again and thousands of commuters had to take the bus.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/oc-transpo-trillium-line-down-saturday-night

[White Pine]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Until the first open house, the one in which the weird split-service proposal was unveiled, the planners wanted both Gladstone and Walkley double tracked to replace the siding passes at Gladstone & Brookfield (in both cases, done by extending each siding south to meet the station).

Nice to hear they've revised back to 2 tracks at Gladstone at least. Shows they've realized how much better it will be for operations. The Gladstone siding is a mess because it's too short resulting in it delaying both trains (as opposed to Brookfield which is longer and adds less delay as a result).

It will also have the elegant result of not adding any additional travel time to the Bayview-Carleton even with the addition of Gladstone station, as the siding stop will be replaced with a station stop. Also far more psychologically satisfying to riders as the passing manoeuvre is hidden.



Also shows they've learned their lessons from the current problems.

As for the Via crossing, Via Rail is planning on building fully dedicated tracks for its Ottawa-Toronto-Montreal triangle, completely separating/insulating their service from other rail traffic, with construction starting in 2017 and completing in 2021. That will include grade separating the O-Train crossing so that solves that problem.

Via already owns the tracks out of Ottawa and I expect most of the construction will be dedicated to the new tracks. However, if the project includes this particular rail/rail separation, that would be nice.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by White Pine

Via already owns the tracks out of Ottawa and I expect most of the construction will be dedicated to the new tracks. However, if the project includes this particular rail/rail separation, that would be nice.

The point of the dedicated tracks project is to allow for VIA's equipment to run at 160km/h throughout the entirety of the Ottawa-Montreal-Toronto triangle, and to allow VIA full freedom to schedule their trains whenever they want. 160km/h is the design cruise speed of VIA's trains, but only in a handful of places can VIA actually reach that speed due to track time restrictions and lower speed limits resulting from level crossings.

The VIA-O Train crossing imposes a lot of scheduling constraints on VIA so separating it would likely be on the list.

VIA is still formulating the plans but from what I've heard, it includes double tracking the entirety of the Ottawa-Brockville and Ottawa-Montreal routes, buying the Brockville Subdivision track from CP, and paying CP to move their rail yard out of Smiths Falls to allow for a seamless connection between the Brockville Subdivision and the Smiths Falls Subdivision.

[waterloowarrior]

Reports to FEDCO
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/item.aspx?itemid=333027

[waterloowarrior]

2023 - Stage 2 - Gladstone, Walkley, South Keys, Leitrim, Bowesville, Confederation relocation
Post 2031 - Airport Extension (spur) - Uplands (E&Y Centre), Airport Terminal , $130 million

Staff will investigate savings for bundling the Airport Extension with Phase 2

Preferred operating model - peak times Bayview to Bowesville, train on spur line acts as shuttle from South Keys to Airport. off-peak Bayview to Airport, South Keys to Bowesville is shuttle
2 car trains, 10 minute headways - 70 metre platforms

re: grade crossings

The Study Team has been informed that Transport
Canada will consider level crossings that can be
shown to be as safe as a grade-separated crossing.
The Recommended Plan includes functional designs
and cost estimates for grade-separated crossings;
however, the City may elect to continue to discuss
this issue with Transport Canada during subsequent
design/implementation phases. Construction of level
crossings will not require additional EA approval but
may require significant changes to the Trillium Line
operating rules.

[rocketphish]

Full-steam ahead for city's LRT expansion plans

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 22, 2015, Last Updated: June 22, 2015 8:53 PM EDT

The city’s finance committee will be asked to approve spending $7 million more to develop the second phase of light rail now that an environmental assessment has confirmed the ambitious plan is viable, even though other levels of government have not officially approved funding the project yet.

The detailed report also finds a rail link to Ottawa’s international airport is technically possible, but there’s no clear plan yet on who would pay for the $155-million project.

The city wants to complete the Stage 2 project by 2023, which means preparatory work must continue this year and next. The finance committee will be asked on Monday to approve the transfer of $7 million in existing available transit capital budget funds from a park and ride account to the Stage 2 LRT project account.

The second phase of the city’s light rail plan, approved in 2013, includes three rail extensions that build on the Trillium O-Train line and the new Confederation line, currently under construction.

• To the south, the Trillium line would extend from Greenboro station to Riverside South (Bowesville Road), including the possibility of an airport link.
• To the west, the Confederation line would extend from Tunney’s Pasture station to Baseline and Bayshore stations.
• To the east, the Confederation line would extend from Blair to Place d’Orléans station, and perhaps even further east to Trim Road.

The $3-billion plan would add 30 km of track and 19 new stations in the east, west and south.

That figure does not include either the $155-million airport link or the $160-million extension to Trim Road because both were added to the study after the city approved in 2013 how much it could afford.

A trio of environmental assessments confirms the routes and stations for each of the proposed extensions, including the description of the station’s physical footprint, ridership capacity, cycling and pedestrian connections, and potential environmental impacts and mitigation needed for each.

The plan crystallizes an agreement reached earlier this year between the city and the National Capital Commission on the jointly-developed solution for the portion of the route between Dominion and Cleary stations, which would run under rebuilt and realigned lanes of the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway.

Bayshore station, which would become the western terminus, would have public washrooms, as would Baseline and Place d’Orléans stations.

The airport link would have two stops: one adjacent to the EY Centre on Uplands Drive and another located between the airport terminal and parking garage, at the top level of the parking garage.

Property requirements are a key component of the plan and city staff need direction from council to begin the real estate transaction process to ensure land can be secured. The city needs to buy or expropriate about 45 parcels of private and public land along the route, the report says.

Paying for the second phase of light rail is possible if the two senior levels of government each chip in one-third of the costs, the province adopts changes to development charges in relation to transit, and transit fares and transit taxes continue to be aligned to the rate of inflation affecting transit costs, the report says.

[email protected]
twitter.com/mpearson78

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/full-steam-ahead-for-citys-lrt-expansion-plans

[waterloowarrior]

http://www.stage2lrt.ca/

[White Pine]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The point of the dedicated tracks project is to allow for VIA's equipment to run at 160km/h throughout the entirety of the Ottawa-Montreal-Toronto triangle, and to allow VIA full freedom to schedule their trains whenever they want. 160km/h is the design cruise speed of VIA's trains, but only in a handful of places can VIA actually reach that speed due to track time restrictions and lower speed limits resulting from level crossings.

The VIA-O Train crossing imposes a lot of scheduling constraints on VIA so separating it would likely be on the list.

VIA is still formulating the plans but from what I've heard, it includes double tracking the entirety of the Ottawa-Brockville and Ottawa-Montreal routes, buying the Brockville Subdivision track from CP, and paying CP to move their rail yard out of Smiths Falls to allow for a seamless connection between the Brockville Subdivision and the Smiths Falls Subdivision.

Where did you hear this? I've been looking for details as to how VIA was planning on accomplishing their dedicated track.

Anyways, I suppose this is a bit off topic.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by White Pine

Where did you hear this? I've been looking for details as to how VIA was planning on accomplishing their dedicated track.

Anyways, I suppose this is a bit off topic.

Offhand from a CP engineer.

Given that the dedicated VIA tracks project may result in a solution to one of the Trillium Line's problems, I'd say it's still mostly on topic.

[1overcosc]

All Trillium Line users on here: How's this line going btw? I've heard it's now at 10 minute frequency. That true?

[McC]

On Sunday it was not operating at 15 minutes, southbound from Bayview was 10 minutes late in the late morning, and northbound at Carleton was about 5 minutes late in the mid-afternoon.