Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[jsbertram]

With the October election campaigns unofficially started, Harper managed to find $2.6 Billion for Toronto to fund SmartTrack to get better commuting to downtown - if the HarpCons get re-elected.

Too bad the UBC subway wasn't a fully-approved 'shovel ready' project just waiting for funding.

With the polling showing a 3-way race, maybe Vancouver can make the difference for minority vs. majority in October?

Can we expect any electioneering dole for transit from the HarpCons this time - with the caveat they are re-elected?

[WarrenC12]

Your name calling aside, this is the same 1/3 infrastructure funding promised to all transit proposals across the country.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1952487/federa...-urban-commuters-with-mass-transit-fund/

Given that they are promising $1B/year for 20 yr P3 partnerships, this means $3B in total project funding. If everything is over 20 years, that's $60B worth of projects in total... hope that makes sense.

IE: Broadway Line, $3B over 20 years, $1B Federal component, $50/m year. Now find 19 more of those.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Your name calling aside, this is the same 1/3 infrastructure funding promised to all transit proposals across the country.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1952487/federa...-urban-commuters-with-mass-transit-fund/

Given that they are promising $1B/year for 20 yr P3 partnerships, this means $3B in total project funding. If everything is over 20 years, that's $60B worth of projects in total... hope that makes sense.

IE: Broadway Line, $3B over 20 years, $1B Federal component, $50/m year. Now find 19 more of those.

But only if HarpCons are re-elected.

[DKaz]

I found some drawings of the Broadway extension, and it appears they want to run it below Broadway, with an optional detour up to 10th Avenue at Cambie to simplify the connection with Broadway-City Hall Station. The drawings have the line going as far as Arbutus.

Sorry, not allowed to take photos.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by DKaz

I found some drawings of the Broadway extension, and it appears they want to run it below Broadway, with an optional detour up to 10th Avenue at Cambie to simplify the connection with Broadway-City Hall Station. The drawings have the line going as far as Arbutus.

Sorry, not allowed to take photos.

Making the diagonal jog from Broadway to 10th ave there is easier than doing it later at Broadway / 10th / Alma, because the City already owns that block.

Build a UBC Line station on the diagonal within the block, and build the new City Hall admin buildings over the station.

[splashflash]

Originally Posted by DKaz

I found some drawings of the Broadway extension, and it appears they want to run it below Broadway, with an optional detour up to 10th Avenue at Cambie to simplify the connection with Broadway-City Hall Station. The drawings have the line going as far as Arbutus.

Sorry, not allowed to take photos.

And the optional 10th Ave detour follows 10th all the way to Arbutus, not illogically descending to Broadway again before Oak? And why not 10th right from Main?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by splashflash

And the optional 10th Ave detour follows 10th all the way to Arbutus, not illogically descending to Broadway again before Oak? And why not 10th right from Main?

They can get onto 10th from Prince Edward St by curving under the east edge of the Kingsgate Mall (under the east parking lot).

That block is owned by VSB, and they are planning on rebuilding the block. Perhaps also include in their plans a connection to a subway station under 10th between Kingsway and Main St.


Full bore to UBC!

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by DKaz

I found some drawings of the Broadway extension, and it appears they want to run it below Broadway, with an optional detour up to 10th Avenue at Cambie to simplify the connection with Broadway-City Hall Station. The drawings have the line going as far as Arbutus.

Sorry, not allowed to take photos.

Question : where did you see these plans?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by DKaz

I found some drawings of the Broadway extension, and it appears they want to run it below Broadway, with an optional detour up to 10th Avenue at Cambie to simplify the connection with Broadway-City Hall Station. The drawings have the line going as far as Arbutus.

Sorry, not allowed to take photos.

I'm more curious if they show the tunnels horizontal (side-by-side) or vertical.

or horizontal under Broadway and then vertical under 10th.

[DKaz]

The line goes down Broadway the entire way, in a bored tunnel, side by side to accommodate crossovers which are Canada Line style X's. The optional detour to 10th Ave at Cambie is only a few blocks long and would allow for a shallower bore and a less complicated connection to Broadway-City Hall.

The drawings were dated November 2011 however.

[Klazu]

When Broadway Skytrain will finally be built, will that perhaps initiate taller towers being built along the corridor? Considering the million dollar views that towers higher than 20 floor would have along the ridge, I am surprised that we haven't see any major proposals. I don't think there are any viewcones preventing taller towers along the corridor, so wy we haven't seen any?

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Klazu

When Broadway Skytrain will finally be built, will that perhaps iniate taller towers being built along the corridor? Considering the million dollar views that towers higher than 20 floor would have along the ridge, I am surprised that we haven't see any major proposals. I don't think there any viewcones preventing taller towers along the corridor, so wy we haven't seen any?

I don't think anyone thinks it's a good idea to create that kind of stir in the opposition, some of which is rather centered around the anti-development circle.

[twoNeurons]

Defininitely would have fantastic views, but I don't think highrises are necessary for density. It's nice to NOT have highrises there for the sake of variety as well. Rather, Low to mid-rises centered on stations and radiating outwards will give the community a closer more livable feel and similar density.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Defininitely would have fantastic views, but I don't think highrises are necessary for density. It's nice to NOT have highrises there for the sake of variety as well. Rather, Low to mid-rises centered on stations and radiating outwards will give the community a closer more livable feel and similar density.

Yeah, you can fit a lot of units into a 4 story building. My building has 66 units (and most of them are large 2 bedroom) on land that was occupied by 4 single family homes. The lower construction cost also results in a more affordable price per square foot (as long as the land isn't worth tens of millions to begin with).

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The line goes down Broadway the entire way, in a bored tunnel, side by side to accommodate crossovers which are Canada Line style X's. The optional detour to 10th Ave at Cambie is only a few blocks long and would allow for a shallower bore and a less complicated connection to Broadway-City Hall.

The drawings were dated November 2011 however.

A shallower bore, really?

At 10th Ave, there's the existing Broadway City Hall Station mezzanine and tracks below.
At Broadway, there's really just tracks below.

Although I'd prefer a 10th Ave. alignment, if they are going under Broadway, a station under Cambie & Broadway would serve double duty by allowing connections to the north side of Broadway AND south to the Broadway City Hall Station without having to build a separate [unfunded] connector tunnel.

I think in either location, they'd need a [deep] mezzanine station layout.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The line goes down Broadway the entire way, in a bored tunnel, side by side to accommodate crossovers which are Canada Line style X's. The optional detour to 10th Ave at Cambie is only a few blocks long and would allow for a shallower bore and a less complicated connection to Broadway-City Hall.

The drawings were dated November 2011 however.

That doesn't really surprise me. The city always seems to do things the easy way at the expense of traffic whenever possible.

As great as 10th would be for the line and keep all of Broadway open for traffic, the space on the surface is a bit tight. There is a lot of room on Broadway for surface based construction activities. And the city would rather inconvenience a lot of drivers rather than a few residents who might only have access to their homes off 10th.

But if they do build under Broadway, why not just build it Cut and Cover (in segments) to save a boat load of cash and time. With a bored tunnel, station pits will have to be open for years anyway, snarling traffic. May as well go the extra mile and totally mess it up, at least we will save some money and get the line finished sooner.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

why not just build it Cut and Cover (in segments) to save a boat load of cash and time.

Canada Line construction

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Yeah, you can fit a lot of units into a 4 story building. My building has 66 units (and most of them are large 2 bedroom) on land that was occupied by 4 single family homes. The lower construction cost also results in a more affordable price per square foot (as long as the land isn't worth tens of millions to begin with).

That'll be the biggest challenge in that area.... land cost and acquisition.

66 units... Shangri-la only has 307 ( mind you they also have a hotel underneat ).

What's an average 30-floor tower have downtown? 150 – 200 units?

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Shangri-la only has 307 ( mind you they also have a hotel underneat ). What's an average 30-floor tower have downtown? 150 – 200 units?

Shangri-La is an upscale building with large suites. There are only few 1BR suites in that building.

Our building The Max has 30 real habitable floors with 10 unites on on each floor. So 300 units.

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by Klazu

When Broadway Skytrain will finally be built, will that perhaps initiate taller towers being built along the corridor? Considering the million dollar views that towers higher than 20 floor would have along the ridge, I am surprised that we haven't see any major proposals. I don't think there are any viewcones preventing taller towers along the corridor, so wy we haven't seen any?

I have a small ear tuned into the Vancouver development community. Putting together what I have gleaned from various sources .. it seems that the developers are working with Bob Metcalf's observation of network effects (if you add one fax machine to a universe of 1 million fax machines, then the value of the whole network goes up ... in other words, if someone out there buys a fax machine - the value of my existing fax machine goes up) without being overtly cognizant of it.

Similarly, the developers see the Evergreen line, running from Douglas College in Coquitlam to UBC on the Endowment lands as a network. That network would have downtown and airport access, the provinces largest medical centre, two universities, at least two colleges, three regional shopping centres, a bucket load of residential housing, all kinds of local retail, all kinds of recreation ... all accessible with one subway ticket.

All this not to mention the great number of start ups that could be situated along the line.

You would not really need to be anywhere else ... and you would not need a car. The ten thousand you save annually on just one car pays for a lot of condo mortgage payments. If you give up two cars at 10,000 after tax each .. that pays for about 500,000 of mortgage at 4%.

When the line is confirmed (however far it goes in section one) you will see lots of new development, not only on the new portion of the line but elsewhere along the line.

It takes some insight to acknowledge that extending the line from Arbutus to UBC will cause a great deal of development in Burnaby and Coquitlam but the network effects says that this is true.

I see 250,000 people living, working and playing on the Evergreen Line once it goes all the way to UBC.

The towers will come. It is the only way to bring in the density.